A post on Twitter claims that the Latvian language increasigly gives way to English language that is sometimes spoken even between Latvian natives, especially youth who consider speaking English "cool". Is this an actual videspread thing that endangers Latvian or some overblown conclusion based on actions of a small subset of people? What do you think is the future of Latvian language? The post seems to be from september, sorry if the question already appeared here.
https://i.redd.it/559ng9hwnu2g1.png
Posted by Manah_krpt
22 Comments
My girlfriend’s son was 4 turning 5 years old when I first met him, he seemed to know pretty much perfect English from a combination of cartoons / YouTube / game and hearing my girlfriend and I FaceTime. Now he’s 7 and started school and sometimes he involuntarily starts speaking English with his peers.
there is actually a lack of Latvian media
I don’t know, neliekas really, ka mēs tā daram.
Absorbing information and data just in Latvian would lead to a severely isolated modern intellectual capacity (no offence Latvia, I know you are trying). There are just 1.5 million Latvians but almost 1.5 billion english-speakers which in countless ways can contribite to the intellectual pool through the language.
It’s just a phase teenagers go through.
Worst case scenario is that we’ll just grab a few new loan words and that’s it. We’ve been through this with german and russian in the past already.
man like liekas that mēs tā dont do that.
Yes, this is true. I often hear kids speaking to each other in English on the street. I write in English to my Latvian friends about 80 % of the time but we talk in Latvian with some English words thrown in. I don’t think there is any aspect of being “cool” to it, English is just the language of all of the media that we consume so it’s often easier to express ourselves in English, rather than Latvian. If i know the person i am speaking to knows English i might switch languages every few sentences depending on which language offers the quicker delivery of information
I don’t think this will “kill” the Latvian language or anything like that, Latvian will just change with the times. Despite what the language regulators want to believe, language is dynamic and is defined by the speakers that use it. There is still plenty of reason to use the Latvian language and there is no external force trying to limit it’s usage like in the past
Dude, sometimes you can hear younger Latvians speak English between each other. Whenever, I speak to others in Latvian, it’s super common to use English loan words as they tend to be easier to remember and use. Yes, I’m a bit concerned for our language in long run, however, right now it’s safe. The way Latvian gets thought in schools needs to be revised – a lot of unnecessary and useless paperwork, furthermore, irrelevant, outdated literature is commonly given which tends to be boring and unappealing, and a slow burn. Obviously, I try to speak in pure Latvian and often have to when speaking to older Latvians, however, with people my age… yep, we need to do more to preserve our language.
I believe this phenomenon comes and goes. In the 19th century, when German was considered the most prestigious international language in this region, there were Latvians who, instead of developing a healthy national confidence to be who they are, adopted a ton of German words and mannerisms to become more like Germans. Same with Russian language under the Soviet rule. Just like in those cases, at one point there will come a trend when this will be seen as ridiculous and shameful and expressing yourself using the means of native Latvian will become the cool and hip thing again.
tak aaaaaiztaisi to muti
I went to Latvia in summer for almost a month to visit my relatives. When on public transport, I either heard russian, latvian or English.
However, when I did hear Latvian’s speaking, it went like this: They spoke latvian, swore in Russian and if they didn’t know the latvian word, then used an English one. This only applies to the younger generation in Riga.
Outside of Riga, English is non-existent (besides like Jurmala), the older generation knows both Russian and Latvian and the younger generation knows either or, depending on the parent.
So it’s somewhat true from my experience. Though, I doubt the country can do much about it.
Yes.
It’s very true and the threat to the Latvian language is real. I don’t really think there’s a solution, because nobody cares.
My Latvian wife and I live our everyday lives in English. Our primary social group (all Latvians) all speak English with each other, including siblings who have grown up together in Latvia.
It’s made it incredibly hard for me to learn the language (which I not only _want_ to do, but _must_ do in order to continue living here), to the point where I’m considering attending classes to fill in the gaps, which I think is ridiculous and sad.
My wife sometimes practises with me, but it’s like pulling teeth to get her to stick to it for any amount of time. The social group on the other hand will absolutely not speak Latvian because, and I quote, “Latvian is cringe.”
I want to tear my hair out sometimes.
So the younger generation speaks mainly in English besides Latvian now. They don’t speak the language of Moskals like the older generations
What they speak is not English, but form of creole. New language created by mixing words of English and local indigenous language.
Yes, very true. I routinelly hear Latvian teenagers (and younger) talking fully English between them.
Sprinkling Latvian sentences with English words does not even seem jarring anymore – thats the norm for everyone below 40.
But its especially weird to hear little Latvian children (like elementary school age) playing and speaking to each other in perfect English with British or American accents (I guess depends on their favorite content creators)
I am a millennial, so not that young, but even my generation almost did not consume Latvian language media. There was simply nothing there to consume compared to wast amount of content on the English world wide web. So we started to use some English words here and there because of it. Like inserts. But still 99% of our communication we do in Latvian.
But in more recent years I have noticed/overheard kids walking around the street speaking English. Not just a word here or there, but all out sentences. At first sight I thought nothing of it, probably just some foreigners, but then couple sentences later they switch to fluent Latvian. Spoke it for couple sentences and then switched back to English again, and so on. And more time passes, more frequently I notice this.
So yes, absolutely this is a thing. And I think it will eventually develop further, maybe even into something that could be called “Latglish”, or something. Similarly to how Hinglish (a mix of Hindi and English) exists in India, or Taglish (a mix of Tagalog and English) exists in Philippines.
Do I care? Note really. I better see younger generation becoming more anglicized than russified to be honest.
Does it endanger Latvian language? Maybe? But not anytime soon. Maybe centuries from now we could end up in a similar place like Ireland, where most people just speak English, even though Irish is thought in schools, but barely anyone actually uses it. But that’s just life. The sands of time will consume everything eventually.
***DZIMTĀĀĀĀ VALODAAAAA, am I rite?***
As that post suggested it is not because it is considered cool or something. It is just lack of vocabluary, so the words they do know come in and that is usually in English. I studied IT – 99% of extra materials where given in English. When i program something, anything, all the variable smostly are in English.
And to learn new words and extend your vocabluary takes effort. You really have to put work into it. And, of course, lack of interest in reading the books that served as a source for new words before. But even that now is not really good option as many translations use just basic vocabluary.
I ain’t reading allat. Parādās vairāk jauniešu, kas, savā starpā, runā angliski, un tas šķiet savādi. Tajā pašā laikā, strādāju starptautiskā uzņēmumā, kur primārā saziņas valoda ir angļu, tāpēc nevaru pārmest.
Lielākā daļa izklaides satura, ko patērēju, ir angliski, tamdēļ, reizēm, ir vieglāk izteikties angliski.
Nenosodu, bet tad, kad runāju latviski, cenšos arī anglicismus nelietot
It is true, as far as the usage of English being very prevalent goes. In my opinion, it’s not an identical case and shouldn’t be shrugged off the same way, internet now is THE main space people live in, it has shifted from 10 years ago, and 10 years ago was already so different from 20 years ago. It’s a rapid change that we haven’t experienced before. It is not overblown. I grew up in a countryside village and can attest to speaking to my latvian friends in english before as well. 10-15 years ago proficiency wasn’t that great, but internet really took off. Now it’s not a side space of our lives, but the main space. How detrimental it will be to language, we will maybe have an idea after 10 more years.
It’s not only a youth phenomenon either, people in late 20s and 30s often casually speak with inserted english words. It brings up a divide in my head – I understand everything anyway, so the job of language is done, however I am concerned about vocabulary moving forward.
“Uj bļe sorry” esmu teicis vairākas reizes. It is what it is, es neteikšu “tas ir, kas tas ir”. Pirmkārt, izklausās debīli. Otrkārt, nav tā, nezinu, ‘konotācija’, ko es gribu izteikt. Treškārt, es aizmirsu vai neizjūtu pietiekamu saikni ar latviešu valodas alternatīvu, lai neizmantotu plaši zināmu, viegli pieejamu anglisko versiju.
Nav pat stāsts par to, cik “kruti” ir runāt svešā valodā, kā tas, cik plūstoša tā ir. Atkāpjoties no “grozāmgrābšļa” vai “stāvdrāža”, tehnoloģiskie vārdi vispār ir nelietojami, ja vien negribi izskatīties pēc LU Baltu filoloģijas svaigākā absolventa vai turbo patriota. Piemēram, esmu jaunas mašīnas meklējumos, un tagad ir parādījušies “mild hibrīdi”. Kā iztulkot mild šajā gadījumā? Maigais hibrīds? Vieglais hibrīds? Atkal, nav tā vienotā skaidrība.
Man liekas, šis skars visas “mazās” valodas, jo nav nekāda spiediena padziļināti izmantot vienu valodu. Nezinu, vien, kā ir Īslandē, jo viņi izdomā savus vārdus itin visam. Varbūt tur stāvēt un drāzt ir pieņemtāk, nekā pie mums.