They built very little to begin with so when you see something like “50% of buildings destroyed” it may sound like a huge loss of entire neighborhoods erased when it was something closer to 20 buildings, most likely mosques, which were of no use to the locals anyway
Edit: forgot I was on Reddit. Add “generally speaking” somewhere in my above comment.
BroDudesky on
I see westerners knowing nothing about Balkans commenting on this. Funny how cultures that are babies in comparison to the cultures and civilizations on the Balkans feel like they are so superior just because they colonized and stole the whole world. You are just babies with stolen wealth.
I even heard a comment “Austrians did this” huh?
Balkaners like to claim things of other balkaners, we are used to that, but now we have to fend off westerners trying to steal our accomplishments too?
No, no Hussars, no Austrians destroyed anything here, it was all Balkan.
BalkanTrekkie2 on
Oh no we shouldve kept the mosques for no apparent reason?
QuickSock8674 on
Surprised that N. Macedonia isn’t in the red. Aren’t they famous for touching up archeological sites?
Edit2: whatever you may say, it is true that they have actively pushed the pseudo-scientific claim of their country continuously existing from the antiquity (“finding” “new” evidences in the process). I have nothing against the Macedonian people, but some of their (“their” as in Macedonians who push the false historical narrative) claims (which one of my friends believes… unfortunately) are simply insane.
Things like…
1. Cyril and Methodius were “Macedonians”
2. Georgi “Gotse” Delchev (ethnically Bulgarian) is ethnically Macedonian
3. There was a medieval Macedonian kingdom under the rule of tsar Samuel. (Who ruled the first “BULGARIAN” Empire-Bitola inscription is probably the most well known proof out of many)
4. Anything to make Alexander ethnically “Macedonian” (the modern Macedonian ethnicity, so… a slav?).
Worst part of this? The Macedonians who push the narrative wholeheartedly believe that they are a freedom fighter fighting the Western propaganda. When you start arguing with one of them, it almost feels like you are dealing with some kind of religious fanatic. (Funnily enough, I’m not even a Westerner!)
911silver on
Balkans are going to love eachother in the comments.
“Love”
Wonderful-Town2392 on
Aside from the fact that it wasn’t just Mosques but why couldn’t they just turn it into Churches? The Palermo cathedral in Sicily was a Byzantine Church turned Mosque by the Caliphate and then turned into Church again by the Normans.
UltraBakait on
What did y’all think decolonization meant? vibes? papers? essays?
Otherwise-Strain8148 on
Saddest one for me is adakale which was an island in danube, which is full of old ottoman civil architecture. It was inhabitated mostly by turks and it was destroyed (submerged) after a nearby dam construction.
lewisfairchild on
Ottomans were colonialists
Human_Pangolin94 on
How about a map showing destruction of buildings over 100-200 years old in all countries? In former Ottoman territories that means Ottoman architecture but look at buildings of similar age in Berlin for example.
Rough-Stress6885 on
Its hillarious that redditors hate colonialism but when muslims do it , its noble and good.
The comments in this thread are SICKENING.
iama787 on
Worth mentioning that the Ottomans themselves destroyed a huge amount of buildings in these areas when they first came. For example Romania had a series of fortresses along the Danube that the Ottomans forced them to destroy so they cannot protect themselves in case they ever decided to fully invade.
fishybatman on
To what extent is the destruction intentional (ie not because of the world wars)?
DotBugs on
This post doesn’t really give me context. Were these buildings destroyed in war. If they were destroyed in peacetime, was it intentional? Were they derelict and torn down? Were they knocked down to build much needed apartments?
Many commenters are acting as if this is good, but it seems like a weird thing to justify without knowing why and how this happened.
ilijadwa on
Croatia should be over 75%. The vast majority of what the ottomans left behind was destroyed in Croatia.
Haunting_Picture_257 on
I want some sources on that
Like what counts as architecture
Or what is the average survival rate of non-Ottoman architecture
What time period is counted. Does buildings falling to ruin from the 15th century count the same as things from the 20th
Like for example Hungary is Red, but ottomans left the country in the second half of the 17th century, while they were present in the Balkans in the early 20th century too. Shit built in 1650 is unlikely to survive, while you can find more stuff from 1900.
Except wars are kind of a bitch
JimJonesJoestar on
What did y’all though decolonization meant? Vibes? Papers? Essays?
kardinal_seen on
As measured by whom?
And whats “Ottoman architecture”? Cathedral church in Niš was built with an entrance descending, and with no belfry, as to make sure to look inferior to the mosque. Its technically Ottoman era building.
In other words, natives destroy architecture of their oppressive occupiers. I see nothing wrong here.
MasterpieceVirtual66 on
Yellowapple1000 is a Turkish propagandist and Ottoman apologist, who constantly makes biased posts with flawed sources that praise the Ottoman Empire and are prejudiced against Balkan peoples, particularly against Serbs, Bulgarians and Greeks.
Proof:
Here he uses the claims of Turkish nationalist Ekrem Ayverdi, to propose the existence of a much larger number of Ottoman buildings than there ever were, as to then blame Balkan peoples for their destruction. https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/s/zTXcOJg4e9
Here he again uses the Turkish nationalist and architect Ekrem Ayverdi to falsify data about Ottoman buildings in Serbia, as other people in the comments point out. https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/s/WabGnPCXfV
Here he tries to depict the Ottomans as having very few cases of the giving the death penalty to people, while providing no sources whatsoever, other than a vague “Ottoman statistics for 1897”. https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/s/5E2J3OQhq9
Here he uses a completely false map, easily disproven by a simple Wikipedia search (as can be seen in my comment), to paint the Greeks as ethnic cleansers. https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/s/BJRQwwqB2z
Here he again paints the Greeks as ethnic cleansers, while providing no sources for his claims. Both me and other people point out the map’s flaws in the comments. https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/s/G48yw9N2YZ
And because people have pointed out many times his biases and lack of sources, or use of flawed sources, he has hidden his post history.
u/mappornmod Every time he posts another propagandistic map, he only brings controversy and drama to this community. I have reported him to you before, please deal with him.
cnzmur on
I don’t really understand this. Is this *all* Ottoman period buildings, like houses and things, or just the fancy ones?
Thal-creates on
Westerners must be secretly watching some Muslim fetish porn the way they defend Muslim colonization here
25 Comments
Not a fan of ottomans but this is sad.
What’s was percentage in Turkey after 1920?
They built very little to begin with so when you see something like “50% of buildings destroyed” it may sound like a huge loss of entire neighborhoods erased when it was something closer to 20 buildings, most likely mosques, which were of no use to the locals anyway
Edit: forgot I was on Reddit. Add “generally speaking” somewhere in my above comment.
I see westerners knowing nothing about Balkans commenting on this. Funny how cultures that are babies in comparison to the cultures and civilizations on the Balkans feel like they are so superior just because they colonized and stole the whole world. You are just babies with stolen wealth.
I even heard a comment “Austrians did this” huh?
Balkaners like to claim things of other balkaners, we are used to that, but now we have to fend off westerners trying to steal our accomplishments too?
No, no Hussars, no Austrians destroyed anything here, it was all Balkan.
Oh no we shouldve kept the mosques for no apparent reason?
Surprised that N. Macedonia isn’t in the red. Aren’t they famous for touching up archeological sites?
Edit: This one maybe? Search turned it up. https://www.reddit.com/r/ArtefactPorn/s/0s0wW1nI6L
Edit2: whatever you may say, it is true that they have actively pushed the pseudo-scientific claim of their country continuously existing from the antiquity (“finding” “new” evidences in the process). I have nothing against the Macedonian people, but some of their (“their” as in Macedonians who push the false historical narrative) claims (which one of my friends believes… unfortunately) are simply insane.
Things like…
1. Cyril and Methodius were “Macedonians”
2. Georgi “Gotse” Delchev (ethnically Bulgarian) is ethnically Macedonian
3. There was a medieval Macedonian kingdom under the rule of tsar Samuel. (Who ruled the first “BULGARIAN” Empire-Bitola inscription is probably the most well known proof out of many)
4. Anything to make Alexander ethnically “Macedonian” (the modern Macedonian ethnicity, so… a slav?).
Worst part of this? The Macedonians who push the narrative wholeheartedly believe that they are a freedom fighter fighting the Western propaganda. When you start arguing with one of them, it almost feels like you are dealing with some kind of religious fanatic. (Funnily enough, I’m not even a Westerner!)
Balkans are going to love eachother in the comments.
“Love”
Aside from the fact that it wasn’t just Mosques but why couldn’t they just turn it into Churches? The Palermo cathedral in Sicily was a Byzantine Church turned Mosque by the Caliphate and then turned into Church again by the Normans.
What did y’all think decolonization meant? vibes? papers? essays?
Saddest one for me is adakale which was an island in danube, which is full of old ottoman civil architecture. It was inhabitated mostly by turks and it was destroyed (submerged) after a nearby dam construction.
Ottomans were colonialists
How about a map showing destruction of buildings over 100-200 years old in all countries? In former Ottoman territories that means Ottoman architecture but look at buildings of similar age in Berlin for example.
Its hillarious that redditors hate colonialism but when muslims do it , its noble and good.
The comments in this thread are SICKENING.
Worth mentioning that the Ottomans themselves destroyed a huge amount of buildings in these areas when they first came. For example Romania had a series of fortresses along the Danube that the Ottomans forced them to destroy so they cannot protect themselves in case they ever decided to fully invade.
To what extent is the destruction intentional (ie not because of the world wars)?
This post doesn’t really give me context. Were these buildings destroyed in war. If they were destroyed in peacetime, was it intentional? Were they derelict and torn down? Were they knocked down to build much needed apartments?
Many commenters are acting as if this is good, but it seems like a weird thing to justify without knowing why and how this happened.
Croatia should be over 75%. The vast majority of what the ottomans left behind was destroyed in Croatia.
I want some sources on that
Like what counts as architecture
Or what is the average survival rate of non-Ottoman architecture
What time period is counted. Does buildings falling to ruin from the 15th century count the same as things from the 20th
Like for example Hungary is Red, but ottomans left the country in the second half of the 17th century, while they were present in the Balkans in the early 20th century too. Shit built in 1650 is unlikely to survive, while you can find more stuff from 1900.
Except wars are kind of a bitch
What did y’all though decolonization meant? Vibes? Papers? Essays?
As measured by whom?
And whats “Ottoman architecture”? Cathedral church in Niš was built with an entrance descending, and with no belfry, as to make sure to look inferior to the mosque. Its technically Ottoman era building.
[or maybe add some context on the destruction of churches in Asia Minor](https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/s/DliFeYWHUT)
So colonialism is only bad when the West does it?
In other words, natives destroy architecture of their oppressive occupiers. I see nothing wrong here.
Yellowapple1000 is a Turkish propagandist and Ottoman apologist, who constantly makes biased posts with flawed sources that praise the Ottoman Empire and are prejudiced against Balkan peoples, particularly against Serbs, Bulgarians and Greeks.
Proof:
Here he uses the claims of Turkish nationalist Ekrem Ayverdi, to propose the existence of a much larger number of Ottoman buildings than there ever were, as to then blame Balkan peoples for their destruction.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/s/zTXcOJg4e9
Here he does the exact same thing, but with bridges, while providing no sources for his claims.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/s/ilfGA5oQgj
Here he again uses the Turkish nationalist and architect Ekrem Ayverdi to falsify data about Ottoman buildings in Serbia, as other people in the comments point out.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/s/WabGnPCXfV
Here he tries to depict the Ottomans as having very few cases of the giving the death penalty to people, while providing no sources whatsoever, other than a vague “Ottoman statistics for 1897”.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/s/5E2J3OQhq9
Here he uses a completely false map, easily disproven by a simple Wikipedia search (as can be seen in my comment), to paint the Greeks as ethnic cleansers.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/s/BJRQwwqB2z
Here he again paints the Greeks as ethnic cleansers, while providing no sources for his claims. Both me and other people point out the map’s flaws in the comments.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/s/G48yw9N2YZ
And because people have pointed out many times his biases and lack of sources, or use of flawed sources, he has hidden his post history.
u/mappornmod Every time he posts another propagandistic map, he only brings controversy and drama to this community. I have reported him to you before, please deal with him.
I don’t really understand this. Is this *all* Ottoman period buildings, like houses and things, or just the fancy ones?
Westerners must be secretly watching some Muslim fetish porn the way they defend Muslim colonization here