The United States protects such speech under the First Amendment, holding that the government cannot ban expression simply because it is offensive or factually incorrect unless it poses an immediate threat.
CharlieTtm0 on
I need to be careful with how I word this – I believe that no matter what someone says expression is a basic human right that should not be controlled or made illegal in anyway. I understand that somethings are offensive or can be harmful and in those cases you have to rely on social pressure to prevent it. Just to clarify though; the holocaust did happen and my condolences go out to all those affected.
biggie_way_smaller on
I stand with free speech, fuck antisemites but the last thing I want is government abusing their power to suppress free speech under the ambiguity of “hate-speech” or “public disruption”
SignificantAd1421 on
Don’t mind me
Desperate-Emu-4224 on
Not correct, holocaust denial is 100% legal in Brazil.
Cato0014 on
Of course Brazil is ambiguous
palpatineforever on
Denial is legal in the UK but you cant just say whatever you like. there are laws if you were making public statements deigsned to intentionally incite hate or harasment.
The fact holocause denial is racially motivated also would come into play with regards to punishment for it. This includes online.
So you can say it didn’t happen but if you are saying that to intentionally stir up trouble you can find yourself getting a knock from the police.
Public Order Act 1986: Criminalizes threatening, abusive, or insulting words/behaviour intended to stir up hatred or cause harassment, alarm, or distress (Section 5).
Crime and Disorder Act 1998 & Sentencing Act 2020: Allow for tougher sentences if a crime (like assault or harassment) is motivated by hostility towards race, religion, sexual orientation, disability, or transgender identity.
Online Safety Act 2023: Also plays a role in regulating online content.
The UK has free speech you can say whatever you like but you can also deal with the consequences if you are being intentionally hateful. So just dont be?
PeanutOld6221 on
I’m an American so I’ll admit ignorance on this whole issue. But for those countries where denying the holocaust is illegal, are there other hot button issues you aren’t allowed to share a stupid view on?
Of course deniers are idiots but why is their stupid view the one regulated?
Like if you’re in Canada is it illegal to say “our government didn’t mistreat the indigenous”?
mikeyjaro on
Great stuff.
Waiting for the Genocide denial map.
RelarMage on
“Ambiguous / Illegal if hateful”
How could Holocaust denial NOT be hateful?
OkRB2977 on
I never understand people who deny historical facts.
huojtkef on
Should be legal everywhere to express your opinion, even if someone is offended.
BornPraline5607 on
For those of you supporting making it illegal to deny the holocaust. I have a question for you, does your country also make it illegal to deny the genocide of Asians under the hand of Japanese? Does you country make it illegal to deny the starvation plan to exterminate eastern Europeans and make room for the German race?
500Rtg on
I am always astounded how much west views the world with their eyes only and expects the world to behave the same. Why would anyone assume that a country in Asia would have any laws regarding Holocaust? Does Australia have laws regarding Jallianwala Bagh? Or Germany on the Bengal famine? Heck, India doesn’t have laws regarding these too. India has free speech, with restrictions. The restrictions are if it hurts religious sentiments or promotes obscenity. If holocaust denial frames it as a Jewish conspiracy, it can be charged under first.
PineBNorth85 on
I’m totally fine with being in one of the red countries.
FlippantChair46 on
Does any other historical event face such issue?
Cool_Being_7590 on
u/SkyNet_Admin_1 said:
>How many Russians and Chinese died in WW2? But we care about 271k dead Jews in concentration camps. How many Japanese did the USA have in concentration camps? The “chosen people” have lied to all of us.
70 – 80 million people died in world war 2. The issue is the systemic processing of humans. The absolute horror of the Holocaust machine being a deliberate, state run machine of death.
No one is saying others didn’t die, and they aren’t only focusing on the Holocaust, what they are saying is that it was a very bad thing that happened. And that exists alongside the other bad things that happened too.
Oh, and your 271k is just flat out wrong. 6 million deaths is more accurate.
AntimatterTNT on
r/portugalcykablyat ?
thegiantlemon on
UK should be orange. Any hateful speech could be found to be illegal. (Not a lawyer, but my understanding of current UK law).
maSneb on
How does one deny the Holocaust in a non-hateful way lol
ultraxanny on
i’m all for israel and the jewish but have these counties ever heard of freedom of speech?
harmfulvisitor on
Apparently its a crime to be stupid in most of Europe
Samwrc93 on
I guess I see it two ways. You absolutely should have the right to question things and be sceptical.
But also without getting deep into it. The holocaust unfortunately did absolutely happen and that is FACT.
Sorry but anyone denying it needs their head checking.
_bagelcherry_ on
Recently a polish far-right politician and activist publicly denied the existence of gas chambers in Auschwitz. Yet he is fine and didn’t faced any legal trouble
Hicalibre on
Clarification for Canada: “wilfully promote antisemitism by condoning, denying or downplaying the Holocaust,” other than in private conversation.
So you can’t “teach” it, but you can believe it.
So a bit of a grey area.
BringBackFatMac on
Japan just straight-up acts like WW2 never happened
Eloy89 on
People aren’t denying that it happened, but how it happened. I think that’s what people are questioning.
MercianRaider on
Its absolutely insane that you can be locked up for saying something didnt happen / saying something didnt happen to the extent that they say it did.
It might be wrong / crazy to say that, buy illegal? Why?
Techman659 on
In the UK sure but don’t you dare talk about current immigration issues or it will quickly become illegal.
ipsum629 on
Remember to sort by controversial, folks.
DefTheOcelot on
Legality of Holodomor denial:
same thing except russia is green
Disastrous_Crew_9260 on
It’s illegal in Finland nowadays.
4pegs on
I think all speech should be protected. Even stupid bullshit
MayBeAGayBee on
The real standouts here imo are the formerly soviet republics in green because presumably they would’ve had to overwrite existing legislation since the fall of the USSR for this.
Like at least US-apologists can scrape by with the (obviously bullshit) legal technicality that this is just like an inevitable result of the first amendment or whatever, but going out of your way to legalize Holocaust denial IN REGIONS WHERE THE NAZIS IMPLEMENTED THE HOLOCAUST is genuinely insane to me.
36 Comments
The United States protects such speech under the First Amendment, holding that the government cannot ban expression simply because it is offensive or factually incorrect unless it poses an immediate threat.
I need to be careful with how I word this – I believe that no matter what someone says expression is a basic human right that should not be controlled or made illegal in anyway. I understand that somethings are offensive or can be harmful and in those cases you have to rely on social pressure to prevent it. Just to clarify though; the holocaust did happen and my condolences go out to all those affected.
I stand with free speech, fuck antisemites but the last thing I want is government abusing their power to suppress free speech under the ambiguity of “hate-speech” or “public disruption”
Don’t mind me
Not correct, holocaust denial is 100% legal in Brazil.
Of course Brazil is ambiguous
Denial is legal in the UK but you cant just say whatever you like. there are laws if you were making public statements deigsned to intentionally incite hate or harasment.
The fact holocause denial is racially motivated also would come into play with regards to punishment for it. This includes online.
So you can say it didn’t happen but if you are saying that to intentionally stir up trouble you can find yourself getting a knock from the police.
Public Order Act 1986: Criminalizes threatening, abusive, or insulting words/behaviour intended to stir up hatred or cause harassment, alarm, or distress (Section 5).
Crime and Disorder Act 1998 & Sentencing Act 2020: Allow for tougher sentences if a crime (like assault or harassment) is motivated by hostility towards race, religion, sexual orientation, disability, or transgender identity.
Online Safety Act 2023: Also plays a role in regulating online content.
The UK has free speech you can say whatever you like but you can also deal with the consequences if you are being intentionally hateful. So just dont be?
I’m an American so I’ll admit ignorance on this whole issue. But for those countries where denying the holocaust is illegal, are there other hot button issues you aren’t allowed to share a stupid view on?
Of course deniers are idiots but why is their stupid view the one regulated?
Like if you’re in Canada is it illegal to say “our government didn’t mistreat the indigenous”?
Great stuff.
Waiting for the Genocide denial map.
“Ambiguous / Illegal if hateful”
How could Holocaust denial NOT be hateful?
I never understand people who deny historical facts.
Should be legal everywhere to express your opinion, even if someone is offended.
For those of you supporting making it illegal to deny the holocaust. I have a question for you, does your country also make it illegal to deny the genocide of Asians under the hand of Japanese? Does you country make it illegal to deny the starvation plan to exterminate eastern Europeans and make room for the German race?
I am always astounded how much west views the world with their eyes only and expects the world to behave the same. Why would anyone assume that a country in Asia would have any laws regarding Holocaust? Does Australia have laws regarding Jallianwala Bagh? Or Germany on the Bengal famine? Heck, India doesn’t have laws regarding these too. India has free speech, with restrictions. The restrictions are if it hurts religious sentiments or promotes obscenity. If holocaust denial frames it as a Jewish conspiracy, it can be charged under first.
I’m totally fine with being in one of the red countries.
Does any other historical event face such issue?
u/SkyNet_Admin_1 said:
>How many Russians and Chinese died in WW2? But we care about 271k dead Jews in concentration camps. How many Japanese did the USA have in concentration camps? The “chosen people” have lied to all of us.
70 – 80 million people died in world war 2. The issue is the systemic processing of humans. The absolute horror of the Holocaust machine being a deliberate, state run machine of death.
No one is saying others didn’t die, and they aren’t only focusing on the Holocaust, what they are saying is that it was a very bad thing that happened. And that exists alongside the other bad things that happened too.
Oh, and your 271k is just flat out wrong. 6 million deaths is more accurate.
r/portugalcykablyat ?
UK should be orange. Any hateful speech could be found to be illegal. (Not a lawyer, but my understanding of current UK law).
How does one deny the Holocaust in a non-hateful way lol
i’m all for israel and the jewish but have these counties ever heard of freedom of speech?
Apparently its a crime to be stupid in most of Europe
I guess I see it two ways. You absolutely should have the right to question things and be sceptical.
But also without getting deep into it. The holocaust unfortunately did absolutely happen and that is FACT.
Sorry but anyone denying it needs their head checking.
Recently a polish far-right politician and activist publicly denied the existence of gas chambers in Auschwitz. Yet he is fine and didn’t faced any legal trouble
Clarification for Canada: “wilfully promote antisemitism by condoning, denying or downplaying the Holocaust,” other than in private conversation.
So you can’t “teach” it, but you can believe it.
So a bit of a grey area.
Japan just straight-up acts like WW2 never happened
People aren’t denying that it happened, but how it happened. I think that’s what people are questioning.
Its absolutely insane that you can be locked up for saying something didnt happen / saying something didnt happen to the extent that they say it did.
It might be wrong / crazy to say that, buy illegal? Why?
In the UK sure but don’t you dare talk about current immigration issues or it will quickly become illegal.
Remember to sort by controversial, folks.
Legality of Holodomor denial:
same thing except russia is green
It’s illegal in Finland nowadays.
I think all speech should be protected. Even stupid bullshit
The real standouts here imo are the formerly soviet republics in green because presumably they would’ve had to overwrite existing legislation since the fall of the USSR for this.
Like at least US-apologists can scrape by with the (obviously bullshit) legal technicality that this is just like an inevitable result of the first amendment or whatever, but going out of your way to legalize Holocaust denial IN REGIONS WHERE THE NAZIS IMPLEMENTED THE HOLOCAUST is genuinely insane to me.
UK should be orange, we have hatespeach laws here
Everywhere should be red.