When you have a nation with this unhealthy, over-the-top patriotism, where they see themselves as almost divinely chosen, a shining beacon, the biggest, the best, blah blah blah, mixed with insane inequality, a downright inhumane system, and a weird obsession with guns, it’s a recipe for disaster. America is full of decent people, but it’s never really figured out how to build a decent society.
From a global perspective, the big decay of the U.S. began in 2001. What is happening now is the result of a series of events that have already taken place. Nothing occurs in a vacuum. Putin invaded Georgia in 2008 after witnessing the U.S. carry out a similar action in Iraq just a few years earlier. The war in Ukraine can be seen as an escalation of that dynamic. Now the U.S. is going full bunker mode, taking whatever it believes is theirs. The significance of 9/11 cannot be underestimated. It marked the beginning of internal unrest that gradually spilled out into the world. It also represented the peak of American power.
The immediate terror and shock from the attacks were significant, but they were not the main or lasting effect. The long-term consequences, including political division, mistrust, and societal polarization, came from how society responded, from the decisions we made, the leaders we elected, and the conflicts we allowed to grow. Osama Bin Laden’s broader goal was not just to kill people, but to weaken the U.S. internally by creating division, chaos, and loss of trust. In a sense, society unintentionally helped achieve that goal through its own actions after the attacks.
In the end, Bin Laden won.
wutareyousomekinda on
For all intents and purposes: Always have been.
80 years of printing money to pay your weapons shareholders for bombs to drop so they can reinvest in the aftermath is no different than what’s happened here, except that the post-WW2 situation has evolved such that our ruling class is more timid nowadays, looking inward to exploit us and increasingly hungry for low hanging fruit.
That was after WW2, which was facilitated by the wealthy business elites of the US and UK at the time who buddied up to Hitler, got him diplomatic cover and favorable press in the NYT and papers of record. Some like Henry Ford were on board enough to publish The International Jew and build their war machines, some like JD Rockefeller were just fans of fascism and continued shipping oil thru the eve of Pearl Harbor + entire tankers of the chemicals to synthesize their fuel after the British blockade became effective, some like Leslie Urquhart had lost out on collectivism in the new Soviet Union, while others like Prescott Bush just wanted to make money off of the war and money printer.
The pre-WW2 period being no better, we invaded about 30 other nations including Nicaragua 11 times before there was a Soviet Union, so obviously that had nothing to do with it. Before that we industrialized on the backs of plantation slavery, and the proceeds of our elites’ opium trafficking which built the Lowell plants and academic institutions including Harvard and Yale which pumped out the likes of Dick Cheney and the later Bushes. All settled atop the largest genocide in history of the Native Americans.
Maleficent_Tank2199 on
Tbh the only difference is that Trump no longer cares to pretend.
If you look at US involvement since WW2 you need to be particularly ignorant to paint the US as the good guys.
Sincere greetings from your new old adversaries in Germany
Dangerous_Thought666 on
Always have been
Sculptor_of_man on
Always have been
hagrid2018 on
The US always had the best PR team, so the thuggery has never been as obvious as the orange clown and his cronies.
Scared-Room-9962 on
Now?
Ask the people of the countries you’ve destroyed over the years how long you’ve been the bad guys for.
It’s becoming nakedly apparent now because you are talking about attacking Europe.
thrawtes on
“America was always bad” comments are nonsense in an attempt to self-soothe for the modern rise of fascism.
America was always America. Like any country with power it has many atrocities in its history, but it also has genuinely contributed a lot of good to the world. The value of the rules-based international order that has held off another World War for nearly 100 years can’t be understated.
America recently made the decision to doom tens of millions of innocent people to death by ending aid efforts. You can’t doom tens of millions of people to death if you didn’t previously have a program to save tens of millions of people.
American has been better and can be better, don’t let anyone tell you it has to be this way. They’re just trying to get you to accept the current state of things as inevitable.
Ok_Will6649 on
“Now” Did you guys think you were the good guys pre Trump?
HDRsoul on
We suck.
Professional-Sea2875 on
I’ll be honest, seeing some of the commentary on here, obviously the MAGA / conservatives are masturbating in their own grim psychopathy, but on the other side, you seem more focussed on the rest of the world dealing with the problems that you (the people of the US) have created. Pretty much no talk about mass protests (granted the ‘no kings’ protests were a great start, but, like there’s been ?2). No talk of general strikes. No calls to influence your representatives etc etc. Lots of excuses. Lots of “why don’t the Europeans stop us” etc.
Perhaps you don’t deserve your democracy? You don’t seem to care for it.
Healthy-Business9465 on
We no longer get to judge average Germans during Nazi Germany.
theguy1336 on
Now? Please. The US has been a cancer on Earth for longer than I’ve been alive.
Legitimate-Bed1591 on
As I said in a previous comment, about to cut ties with the US [business] on the basis of his Greenland comments.
Figure it out guys. Time’s running out for your country, fast.
I know you didn’t ask for the problem but it is your job, now, to fix it.
Gardening_investor on
Voted for someone that said they’d be a dictator, yet shocked he’s a dictator?
KissyKittenzz on
Sometimes it feels like, we literally coup’n countries for sport and still lose the olympics, fucking embarrassing
No_Collection1870 on
And have been for far longer than anybody wants or desires
pan7h- on
not “now” since 2001
Lord_Hitachi on
Same as it ever was
steepleton on
the problem with america is that it’s wars don’t touch it’s mainland.
europeans understand bombs and death.
america walks around like a rich kid that’s never had the humility that a good square punch in the nose brings you
Far_Section3715 on
Now?!
Drunken_Hillbilly on
We’ve been the bad guys for a lot longer than people think.
earhere on
America was always the bad guys. The country was founded as a settler colonial entity built on genocide and slavery, all so wealthy landowners could be kings themselves.
Budget_Operation_106 on
Now? Since post WW2 the US has been the single biggest bad guy in the world.
Lovestripes on
You’re late to the party if you’re only just realising this.
GaptistePlayer on
Always have been
PettyWitch on
Only NOW?? We’ve been the bad guys for decades.
slavid180501 on
Now? I think USA has been the “bad guys” for a long time, all your wars for oil or your coup’s to assist the interest of the administration’s donors.
Now the pretence of world peace or justice and freedom is not there.
miffyrin on
“now”, lol
Vociee on
Now?
BonesandMartinis on
Now?
Kithslayer on
We have been for over 60 years, its just mask off now.
hi_fi_v on
“Now”
YoungDeweyCox on
Always have been
somekindofdruiddude on
I grew up in the 70s, just 30 years after the defeat of the Nazis. There was a lot of discussion of the culpability the ordinary German, the people who may not have approved of genocide and conquest, but kept their mouth shut and went about their daily lives.
I never thought I would have to confront that particular ethical decision.
But now I have to.
protectedmember on
Hate to break it to ya bud, but this is far from new.
Avid_Reader87 on
I certainly am not. I voted for Harris.
If you say out and didn’t vote, or voted for Trump or a Russian backed third party candidate you are culpable in all of this.
shas-la on
“Now”
ElliotNess on
astronaut meme: always have been
AvocaRed on
Murica was always the bad guy, interfering with smaller countries, installing pawns that work for them. Bullying other countries with tariffs, forcing dependency.
Trump is just more open and incompetent at hiding murica’s bullying nature so now it’s so obvious anyone would see what’s happening
IJourden on
…now?
Dangerous-Flower-840 on
lol “now” 🤣
jakehosnerf on
Now?
damorec on
You’ve always been the bad guys. You’ve invaded more countries, toppled more governments and killed more people than any country over the past 100 years.
You’re just realizing it cause Trump is doing it so brazenly now.
For all those pretending it’s a Democrat vs Republican thing:
In the past 100 years it’s dozens of declared wars and 100+ interventions. Both parties were at the helm for all this crap.
MalyceAforethought on
We haven’t been the good guy. Ever. Maybe during WW1? Even then, we chose to support the bloodiest empire in the history of humanity because they look like the founding fathers.
WW2, we not only initiated a mass casualty event twice on a nation already on its knees, we justified freeing the fascist assholes that started it by saying they would help us build more bombs.
The cold war was not a struggle of good vs evil, it was a struggle between two ideologically opposed methods of oppression.
Afghanistan was oppression justified by terrorism response. Iraq was a lie. Libya? Gaddafi was a megalomaniac, but not really a threat to the American way of life.
All throughout our history we have been the oppressors and bullies. Pretty much since the revolutionary war, we have been the bad guys. We slaughtered the first nations peoples because we didn’t see them as people. Black folk have never had it good here.
We aren’t the bad guys NOW, we have always been the bad guys. The only difference is that now we have mass media and everyone can see how shitty we are.
Sleevepants on
You guys have been for a while. I was just born in the 90’s and I grew up of hearing of this America that “sticks up for the little guy and fosters democracy” but all I’ve even seen is them be bullies.
47 Comments
When you have a nation with this unhealthy, over-the-top patriotism, where they see themselves as almost divinely chosen, a shining beacon, the biggest, the best, blah blah blah, mixed with insane inequality, a downright inhumane system, and a weird obsession with guns, it’s a recipe for disaster. America is full of decent people, but it’s never really figured out how to build a decent society.
From a global perspective, the big decay of the U.S. began in 2001. What is happening now is the result of a series of events that have already taken place. Nothing occurs in a vacuum. Putin invaded Georgia in 2008 after witnessing the U.S. carry out a similar action in Iraq just a few years earlier. The war in Ukraine can be seen as an escalation of that dynamic. Now the U.S. is going full bunker mode, taking whatever it believes is theirs. The significance of 9/11 cannot be underestimated. It marked the beginning of internal unrest that gradually spilled out into the world. It also represented the peak of American power.
The immediate terror and shock from the attacks were significant, but they were not the main or lasting effect. The long-term consequences, including political division, mistrust, and societal polarization, came from how society responded, from the decisions we made, the leaders we elected, and the conflicts we allowed to grow. Osama Bin Laden’s broader goal was not just to kill people, but to weaken the U.S. internally by creating division, chaos, and loss of trust. In a sense, society unintentionally helped achieve that goal through its own actions after the attacks.
In the end, Bin Laden won.
For all intents and purposes: Always have been.
80 years of printing money to pay your weapons shareholders for bombs to drop so they can reinvest in the aftermath is no different than what’s happened here, except that the post-WW2 situation has evolved such that our ruling class is more timid nowadays, looking inward to exploit us and increasingly hungry for low hanging fruit.
That was after WW2, which was facilitated by the wealthy business elites of the US and UK at the time who buddied up to Hitler, got him diplomatic cover and favorable press in the NYT and papers of record. Some like Henry Ford were on board enough to publish The International Jew and build their war machines, some like JD Rockefeller were just fans of fascism and continued shipping oil thru the eve of Pearl Harbor + entire tankers of the chemicals to synthesize their fuel after the British blockade became effective, some like Leslie Urquhart had lost out on collectivism in the new Soviet Union, while others like Prescott Bush just wanted to make money off of the war and money printer.
The pre-WW2 period being no better, we invaded about 30 other nations including Nicaragua 11 times before there was a Soviet Union, so obviously that had nothing to do with it. Before that we industrialized on the backs of plantation slavery, and the proceeds of our elites’ opium trafficking which built the Lowell plants and academic institutions including Harvard and Yale which pumped out the likes of Dick Cheney and the later Bushes. All settled atop the largest genocide in history of the Native Americans.
Tbh the only difference is that Trump no longer cares to pretend.
If you look at US involvement since WW2 you need to be particularly ignorant to paint the US as the good guys.
Sincere greetings from your new old adversaries in Germany
Always have been
Always have been
The US always had the best PR team, so the thuggery has never been as obvious as the orange clown and his cronies.
Now?
Ask the people of the countries you’ve destroyed over the years how long you’ve been the bad guys for.
It’s becoming nakedly apparent now because you are talking about attacking Europe.
“America was always bad” comments are nonsense in an attempt to self-soothe for the modern rise of fascism.
America was always America. Like any country with power it has many atrocities in its history, but it also has genuinely contributed a lot of good to the world. The value of the rules-based international order that has held off another World War for nearly 100 years can’t be understated.
America recently made the decision to doom tens of millions of innocent people to death by ending aid efforts. You can’t doom tens of millions of people to death if you didn’t previously have a program to save tens of millions of people.
American has been better and can be better, don’t let anyone tell you it has to be this way. They’re just trying to get you to accept the current state of things as inevitable.
“Now” Did you guys think you were the good guys pre Trump?
We suck.
I’ll be honest, seeing some of the commentary on here, obviously the MAGA / conservatives are masturbating in their own grim psychopathy, but on the other side, you seem more focussed on the rest of the world dealing with the problems that you (the people of the US) have created. Pretty much no talk about mass protests (granted the ‘no kings’ protests were a great start, but, like there’s been ?2). No talk of general strikes. No calls to influence your representatives etc etc. Lots of excuses. Lots of “why don’t the Europeans stop us” etc.
Perhaps you don’t deserve your democracy? You don’t seem to care for it.
We no longer get to judge average Germans during Nazi Germany.
Now? Please. The US has been a cancer on Earth for longer than I’ve been alive.
As I said in a previous comment, about to cut ties with the US [business] on the basis of his Greenland comments.
Figure it out guys. Time’s running out for your country, fast.
I know you didn’t ask for the problem but it is your job, now, to fix it.
Voted for someone that said they’d be a dictator, yet shocked he’s a dictator?
Sometimes it feels like, we literally coup’n countries for sport and still lose the olympics, fucking embarrassing
And have been for far longer than anybody wants or desires
not “now” since 2001
Same as it ever was
the problem with america is that it’s wars don’t touch it’s mainland.
europeans understand bombs and death.
america walks around like a rich kid that’s never had the humility that a good square punch in the nose brings you
Now?!
We’ve been the bad guys for a lot longer than people think.
America was always the bad guys. The country was founded as a settler colonial entity built on genocide and slavery, all so wealthy landowners could be kings themselves.
Now? Since post WW2 the US has been the single biggest bad guy in the world.
You’re late to the party if you’re only just realising this.
Always have been
Only NOW?? We’ve been the bad guys for decades.
Now? I think USA has been the “bad guys” for a long time, all your wars for oil or your coup’s to assist the interest of the administration’s donors.
Now the pretence of world peace or justice and freedom is not there.
“now”, lol
Now?
Now?
We have been for over 60 years, its just mask off now.
“Now”
Always have been
I grew up in the 70s, just 30 years after the defeat of the Nazis. There was a lot of discussion of the culpability the ordinary German, the people who may not have approved of genocide and conquest, but kept their mouth shut and went about their daily lives.
I never thought I would have to confront that particular ethical decision.
But now I have to.
Hate to break it to ya bud, but this is far from new.
I certainly am not. I voted for Harris.
If you say out and didn’t vote, or voted for Trump or a Russian backed third party candidate you are culpable in all of this.
“Now”
astronaut meme: always have been
Murica was always the bad guy, interfering with smaller countries, installing pawns that work for them. Bullying other countries with tariffs, forcing dependency.
Trump is just more open and incompetent at hiding murica’s bullying nature so now it’s so obvious anyone would see what’s happening
…now?
lol “now” 🤣
Now?
You’ve always been the bad guys. You’ve invaded more countries, toppled more governments and killed more people than any country over the past 100 years.
You’re just realizing it cause Trump is doing it so brazenly now.
For all those pretending it’s a Democrat vs Republican thing:
In the past 100 years it’s dozens of declared wars and 100+ interventions. Both parties were at the helm for all this crap.
We haven’t been the good guy. Ever. Maybe during WW1? Even then, we chose to support the bloodiest empire in the history of humanity because they look like the founding fathers.
WW2, we not only initiated a mass casualty event twice on a nation already on its knees, we justified freeing the fascist assholes that started it by saying they would help us build more bombs.
The cold war was not a struggle of good vs evil, it was a struggle between two ideologically opposed methods of oppression.
Afghanistan was oppression justified by terrorism response. Iraq was a lie. Libya? Gaddafi was a megalomaniac, but not really a threat to the American way of life.
All throughout our history we have been the oppressors and bullies. Pretty much since the revolutionary war, we have been the bad guys. We slaughtered the first nations peoples because we didn’t see them as people. Black folk have never had it good here.
We aren’t the bad guys NOW, we have always been the bad guys. The only difference is that now we have mass media and everyone can see how shitty we are.
You guys have been for a while. I was just born in the 90’s and I grew up of hearing of this America that “sticks up for the little guy and fosters democracy” but all I’ve even seen is them be bullies.
Now?? Just now?