I mean, while I oppose discrimination based on nationality in general, discrimination towards those who renounced citizenship to avoid conscription only to come here to enjoy the benefits is a pretty different issue and one I feel that is understandable. Especially for those who didn’t renounce citizenship and faithfully served the country.
timbomcchoi on
There’s an unexpectedly (and in my opinion misplaced) class dynamic that’s emphasised in the article, but I’m hoping to stay clear of it.
I think this example explains best not only *that* they’re not appreciated by the Korean public, but also *why*.
>“I simply chose one of the two options I had, and there’s nothing wrong with that,” said Lee, who is now a graduate student in biology in the US. His family moved back to Korea shortly after his birth. He moved alone back to the US in eighth grade for his studies.
>”I still feel more comfortable speaking Korean and when I’m around my Korean friends. I consider myself a Korean. It’s just my passport that’s different.”
>Lee now travels to Seoul every few years to see his family on a C-3 visa, a short-term visit permit intended for temporary stays such as tourism. He hopes to return to Korea someday to be near his family and build his career here.
To my eyes this represents a misunderstanding of what “Korean” Koreans see in these people such that they’re rejected by their homeland. You can emigrate and live a good life, and no one wants to deny you that right. But when you voluntarily pick and choose what part of a national identity you’ll subscribe to…..
Social capital in Korea (and by extension of being Korean) isn’t just built upon language, or what your passport says; it’s a collective understanding and expectation that you’re willing to make sacrifices for the general society. When you go at such lengths as to move to a different country and renounce your passport to avoid a responsibility that applies to half the population, you’re not gonna get that trust.
Medium_Scheme_414 on
These days, Koreans complain that Korean-Americans lead the hate of Korea on social media.
They claim to be discriminated against in Korea. But I don’t think they really know why they are called black-haired foreigners. What’s negative about Korean-Americans is disparaging of Korea to foreigners who pretend to be Korean experts. They talk about Korea as a disaster on social media. They generalize Korea and then criticize it and Koreans refute it. Then they pretend to be superior because Koreans don’t get criticized. When foreigners criticize Korea, Korean-Americans criticize Korea like Korean experts again. They complain about how bad life Korea is, unlike American society. But why do they have a 0.81 birth rate and a high suicide rate among Asian people even when they go to the U.S.? Even among Asian people, Korean-Americans have low incomes. We can see it by looking at Korean companies, Korean restaurants, and Korean churches in the U.S. The drama Beef aired on Netflix also depicted angry Korean american. At that time, Korean-Americans were complaining that they only focus on negative things. They also don’t want to see negative sides of Koreans. Why are they not happy and obsessed with the negative things of Korea on TikTok SNS? On Reddit, a Korean-American men criticized Korea and claimed that he married another Asian woman because he hated toxic Koreans.But he couldn’t say anything when somone said that Korean-American men had the same part.
[deleted] on
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xPyright on
Some of it for sure is envy.
But I don’t think it’s envy to expect somebody to contribute to a society/culture if they’re gonna claim/act like they’re part of that society/culture.
For example, my mother is American and my father is from Asia. Not in 1 million years would I ever claim to be part of my dad’s previous society, because I’ve never done anything meaningful with that society.
*If somebody wants to be in a club, they gotta pay the membership fee.* And many Asian Americans have never actually lived the life of the culture their parents came from. (I’m one of them!) At best, they are tourists in their parents’ culture. Obviously some Asian Americans have spent significant time in their parents’ society/culture, and they’ve done enough to pay the membership fee. It’s different for each Asian American.
I’d also argue that Asian Americans can be incredibly envious of purely Asian cultures.
We wouldn’t be having this debate if Asian Americans were OK with strictly being Asian Americans. I’ve often seen my fellow Asian Americans be envious of their parents’ culture and the strong cultural identity of purely Asian societies. And I don’t blame them.
Cultural identity is something that a lot of Asian Americans struggle with.
PriorCraft6238 on
Changing one’s nationality is one thing, but returning to Korea after doing so appears to be a typical act of draft evasion by the wealthy. Defending such behavior will only result in the wealthy taking advantage of it.
OfficeLess6948 on
i would be much more willing to buy into these espousements of responsibility and honor and the hefty weight of a citizenship if it weren’t for the fact that military service isn’t reliant on whether or not you’re a korean citizen but purely based on whether you have a wee wee or not.
additionally, i feel like a lot of the comments here labeling people who do this as flakers who just aren’t willing to pay the membership fee or as “voluntarily picking what part of a national identity to subscribe to” are a bit narrow minded. just as an example i’ll use america but when you’re born on american soil you become an american citizen, no strings attached (of course taxes but). there is no “membership fee”, no oh bow down if you want to join us you gotta spent 18 months of your youth to protect, just a handshake from uncle sam. and when you are an american citizen there is no obligation nor expectation that you have to throw away other parts of your identity and dedicate yourself to THIS country to become “truly” american, like we are a land of immigrants, people often regard their secondary cultural identities with very high importance.
it’s basically the recognition that instead of imposing barriers so that potential valuable contributors to your society are turned away, it’d probably be much more beneficial to just welcome them instead.
but i mean that’s just my opinion, i’m really just twisted because i feel the articles argument about wishy-washy black-haired foreigners and their dodging of responsibility cannot exist without the assertion that military service is a civic duty in korea, but since you can replace the word civic with gendered without change in policy, i find it strongly lacking. and to counterarguments like women also contribute with taxes etc.. those same dutys are also applied equally to men, so i mean if there’s an argument against dual citizens who don’t pay taxes then i’m genuinely all for labeling them culturally-irrelevant squatters and shipping them off to napoleon’s island, but the original one just holds zero weight to me.
kturtle17 on
I will never take people complaining about draft dodging seriously until they realize they’re somehow already perfectly fine with half the population avoiding conscription because of a silly double standard and don’t see anything wrong with that.
8 Comments
I mean, while I oppose discrimination based on nationality in general, discrimination towards those who renounced citizenship to avoid conscription only to come here to enjoy the benefits is a pretty different issue and one I feel that is understandable. Especially for those who didn’t renounce citizenship and faithfully served the country.
There’s an unexpectedly (and in my opinion misplaced) class dynamic that’s emphasised in the article, but I’m hoping to stay clear of it.
I think this example explains best not only *that* they’re not appreciated by the Korean public, but also *why*.
>“I simply chose one of the two options I had, and there’s nothing wrong with that,” said Lee, who is now a graduate student in biology in the US. His family moved back to Korea shortly after his birth. He moved alone back to the US in eighth grade for his studies.
>”I still feel more comfortable speaking Korean and when I’m around my Korean friends. I consider myself a Korean. It’s just my passport that’s different.”
>Lee now travels to Seoul every few years to see his family on a C-3 visa, a short-term visit permit intended for temporary stays such as tourism. He hopes to return to Korea someday to be near his family and build his career here.
To my eyes this represents a misunderstanding of what “Korean” Koreans see in these people such that they’re rejected by their homeland. You can emigrate and live a good life, and no one wants to deny you that right. But when you voluntarily pick and choose what part of a national identity you’ll subscribe to…..
Social capital in Korea (and by extension of being Korean) isn’t just built upon language, or what your passport says; it’s a collective understanding and expectation that you’re willing to make sacrifices for the general society. When you go at such lengths as to move to a different country and renounce your passport to avoid a responsibility that applies to half the population, you’re not gonna get that trust.
These days, Koreans complain that Korean-Americans lead the hate of Korea on social media.
They claim to be discriminated against in Korea. But I don’t think they really know why they are called black-haired foreigners. What’s negative about Korean-Americans is disparaging of Korea to foreigners who pretend to be Korean experts. They talk about Korea as a disaster on social media. They generalize Korea and then criticize it and Koreans refute it. Then they pretend to be superior because Koreans don’t get criticized. When foreigners criticize Korea, Korean-Americans criticize Korea like Korean experts again. They complain about how bad life Korea is, unlike American society. But why do they have a 0.81 birth rate and a high suicide rate among Asian people even when they go to the U.S.? Even among Asian people, Korean-Americans have low incomes. We can see it by looking at Korean companies, Korean restaurants, and Korean churches in the U.S. The drama Beef aired on Netflix also depicted angry Korean american. At that time, Korean-Americans were complaining that they only focus on negative things. They also don’t want to see negative sides of Koreans. Why are they not happy and obsessed with the negative things of Korea on TikTok SNS? On Reddit, a Korean-American men criticized Korea and claimed that he married another Asian woman because he hated toxic Koreans.But he couldn’t say anything when somone said that Korean-American men had the same part.
[removed]
Some of it for sure is envy.
But I don’t think it’s envy to expect somebody to contribute to a society/culture if they’re gonna claim/act like they’re part of that society/culture.
For example, my mother is American and my father is from Asia. Not in 1 million years would I ever claim to be part of my dad’s previous society, because I’ve never done anything meaningful with that society.
*If somebody wants to be in a club, they gotta pay the membership fee.* And many Asian Americans have never actually lived the life of the culture their parents came from. (I’m one of them!) At best, they are tourists in their parents’ culture. Obviously some Asian Americans have spent significant time in their parents’ society/culture, and they’ve done enough to pay the membership fee. It’s different for each Asian American.
I’d also argue that Asian Americans can be incredibly envious of purely Asian cultures.
We wouldn’t be having this debate if Asian Americans were OK with strictly being Asian Americans. I’ve often seen my fellow Asian Americans be envious of their parents’ culture and the strong cultural identity of purely Asian societies. And I don’t blame them.
Cultural identity is something that a lot of Asian Americans struggle with.
Changing one’s nationality is one thing, but returning to Korea after doing so appears to be a typical act of draft evasion by the wealthy. Defending such behavior will only result in the wealthy taking advantage of it.
i would be much more willing to buy into these espousements of responsibility and honor and the hefty weight of a citizenship if it weren’t for the fact that military service isn’t reliant on whether or not you’re a korean citizen but purely based on whether you have a wee wee or not.
additionally, i feel like a lot of the comments here labeling people who do this as flakers who just aren’t willing to pay the membership fee or as “voluntarily picking what part of a national identity to subscribe to” are a bit narrow minded. just as an example i’ll use america but when you’re born on american soil you become an american citizen, no strings attached (of course taxes but). there is no “membership fee”, no oh bow down if you want to join us you gotta spent 18 months of your youth to protect, just a handshake from uncle sam. and when you are an american citizen there is no obligation nor expectation that you have to throw away other parts of your identity and dedicate yourself to THIS country to become “truly” american, like we are a land of immigrants, people often regard their secondary cultural identities with very high importance.
it’s basically the recognition that instead of imposing barriers so that potential valuable contributors to your society are turned away, it’d probably be much more beneficial to just welcome them instead.
but i mean that’s just my opinion, i’m really just twisted because i feel the articles argument about wishy-washy black-haired foreigners and their dodging of responsibility cannot exist without the assertion that military service is a civic duty in korea, but since you can replace the word civic with gendered without change in policy, i find it strongly lacking. and to counterarguments like women also contribute with taxes etc.. those same dutys are also applied equally to men, so i mean if there’s an argument against dual citizens who don’t pay taxes then i’m genuinely all for labeling them culturally-irrelevant squatters and shipping them off to napoleon’s island, but the original one just holds zero weight to me.
I will never take people complaining about draft dodging seriously until they realize they’re somehow already perfectly fine with half the population avoiding conscription because of a silly double standard and don’t see anything wrong with that.