Researchers have developed a contactless method that analyzes a combination of patients’ heart rate data and facial expressions to estimate the pain they’re feeling
Researchers have developed a contactless method that analyzes a combination of patients’ heart rate data and facial expressions to estimate the pain they’re feeling
Cool, so everyone who’s had DBT for “anxiety” will be at a disadvantage, bearing weight under cognitive and sensory load vs those who are completely dysregulated, even though the objective pain felt is equal.
Tell me more ableism, please…
(I work in study design, this is feed forward cognitive bias based on behaviorism weighting vs internal subjective experience. Completely trauma unaware and against best practices/SOC).
It’s systemic “mind reading” instead of using a clear, defined, shared lexicon between clinician and patient. This is CYA, not SOC.
Nyardyn on
This would completely fail on patients with chronic pain though. I could look completely normal despite feeling like I was dying inside….
Eldon42 on
Yeah, this is going to get things so wrong. I know lots of stoic people who barely show anything despite being in great pain. I suspect this study is highly regional.
51CKS4DW0RLD on
Leave it to science to build a machine for this rather than like, talk to the goddamn patient
molasses_disaster on
Another way for neurodivergent people to face medical discrimination, that’s fun.
hiraeth555 on
Sorry Buddhist monks, no anaesthetics for you
seawitchbitch on
So women trained to smile through their pain by awful menstrual periods every month will also continue to have our pain minimized.
23icefire on
I see your arm is broken, but the Painorometer(TM) say’s you’re only showing “mild signs of discomfort” so we will not be administering any morphine. I’m happy to offer you some acetaminophen, if your insurance will cover it.
Thank you, and be well!
KuriousKhemicals on
guys the point is to use this in situations where the patient *can’t* talk to you coherently
Condition_0ne on
So, imagine I’m being castrated by demons and method act my face and cardiovascular system into getting me the good stuff.
UndeliveredMale on
Oh yay, something else that won’t work for autistic people, chronic pain sufferers, and stoics.
Kolfinna on
That’ll be garbage. I’ve been in chronic pain for 30 years, my face and heart rate stabilized long ago
okayChuck on
I think there are some valid critiques/concerns if this is used as an interpersonal methodology to compare pain between individuals to form metrics or “scores”.
However, I do think this could be beneficial on an intrapersonal level in patients who can’t communicate effectively or at all. A way to measure the either increasing or decreasing pain levels without needing discrete communication.
laser50 on
I have chronic back pain ranging from rather irritating and debilitating to being nearly unable to stand, sit or move without a decent amount of pain to push through, it’s done miracles for my ability to take pain… But that also means for most things I barely respond at all, the only time I needed a good 5 minutes to recover was when I bumped my elbow into a doorframe at mach 2, hairline fracturing it in the process, but most things I will barely respond to whatsoever.
RiseRattlesnakeArmy on
I have endometriosis. I went to work with an ectopic pregnancy and was like ‘No worse than endo pain.” Right before my fallopian tube ruptured I was in emerg and I was like “Yeah, I guess this would be like a 9 or 10 for pain?”
Have been going for deep tissue massage because my body on that side is so tense and the masseuse is like “… Let me know if this hurts…” And I tell her to keep going and she says “… Most people would be asking me to stop.” And I say “Nah, I’m good. Keep going.”
So whether or not my face would give it away or my blood pressure, I don’t know.
Sandman64can on
Asa triage nurse I notice that wait times are very much an indicator of pain level. The longer the wait the more 12/10 pain ratings you will get in a shift.
18 Comments
Peer-reviewed article: [https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/11249745](https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/11249745)
Cool, so everyone who’s had DBT for “anxiety” will be at a disadvantage, bearing weight under cognitive and sensory load vs those who are completely dysregulated, even though the objective pain felt is equal.
Tell me more ableism, please…
(I work in study design, this is feed forward cognitive bias based on behaviorism weighting vs internal subjective experience. Completely trauma unaware and against best practices/SOC).
It’s systemic “mind reading” instead of using a clear, defined, shared lexicon between clinician and patient. This is CYA, not SOC.
This would completely fail on patients with chronic pain though. I could look completely normal despite feeling like I was dying inside….
Yeah, this is going to get things so wrong. I know lots of stoic people who barely show anything despite being in great pain. I suspect this study is highly regional.
Leave it to science to build a machine for this rather than like, talk to the goddamn patient
Another way for neurodivergent people to face medical discrimination, that’s fun.
Sorry Buddhist monks, no anaesthetics for you
So women trained to smile through their pain by awful menstrual periods every month will also continue to have our pain minimized.
I see your arm is broken, but the Painorometer(TM) say’s you’re only showing “mild signs of discomfort” so we will not be administering any morphine. I’m happy to offer you some acetaminophen, if your insurance will cover it.
Thank you, and be well!
guys the point is to use this in situations where the patient *can’t* talk to you coherently
So, imagine I’m being castrated by demons and method act my face and cardiovascular system into getting me the good stuff.
Oh yay, something else that won’t work for autistic people, chronic pain sufferers, and stoics.
That’ll be garbage. I’ve been in chronic pain for 30 years, my face and heart rate stabilized long ago
I think there are some valid critiques/concerns if this is used as an interpersonal methodology to compare pain between individuals to form metrics or “scores”.
However, I do think this could be beneficial on an intrapersonal level in patients who can’t communicate effectively or at all. A way to measure the either increasing or decreasing pain levels without needing discrete communication.
I have chronic back pain ranging from rather irritating and debilitating to being nearly unable to stand, sit or move without a decent amount of pain to push through, it’s done miracles for my ability to take pain… But that also means for most things I barely respond at all, the only time I needed a good 5 minutes to recover was when I bumped my elbow into a doorframe at mach 2, hairline fracturing it in the process, but most things I will barely respond to whatsoever.
I have endometriosis. I went to work with an ectopic pregnancy and was like ‘No worse than endo pain.” Right before my fallopian tube ruptured I was in emerg and I was like “Yeah, I guess this would be like a 9 or 10 for pain?”
Have been going for deep tissue massage because my body on that side is so tense and the masseuse is like “… Let me know if this hurts…” And I tell her to keep going and she says “… Most people would be asking me to stop.” And I say “Nah, I’m good. Keep going.”
So whether or not my face would give it away or my blood pressure, I don’t know.
Asa triage nurse I notice that wait times are very much an indicator of pain level. The longer the wait the more 12/10 pain ratings you will get in a shift.
I get to just tell how much pain I’m in.