The comparison of the sultans to modern population was done through [https://vahaduo.github.io/vahaduo/](https://vahaduo.github.io/vahaduo/)
The historical data used for the geneaology of the Sultans was obtained on [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sultans_of_the_Ottoman_Empire](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sultans_of_the_Ottoman_Empire)
The simulated g25 coordinates for the sultans are as follows
So, this of course doesn’t have the genetic materials of the Ottomans, right?
Bazzzookah on
Same genetic evolution happened elsewhere when conquering dynasties kept marrying local women for generations because the conquerors themselves were all male, e.g. the Normans, the Mughals, the Magyars, the Mongols.
non_standard_model on
Wait how did you test the genes of ottoman sultans? Did you go back in time and get them to spit in a tube?
latespresso on
Is this based on the assumption that all the mothers are of their ethnicity’s pure race? If so this data makes 0 sense.
Nigelthornfruit on
Surely the Y chromosome would remain ottoman
NeoHolyRomanEmpire on
Yellow text on a white background!?
linmanfu on
On the one hand, this is essentially guesswork and other Redditors have correctly pointed out that it relies on a lot of assumptions about both the Ottoman male line and their slaves.
On the other hand, there’s a lot of effort been put into this and I like the fact that it neatly demonstrates the absurdity of some common assumptions about ethnic essentialism in general and Turkish nationalism in particular (and yes, I know that many Turkish nationalists aren’t great fans of the Ottoman dynasty).
elsyryen on
This table has no meaning. You cannot measure something you don’t even know. There are too many variables and unknowns.
Kinggambit90 on
I’ve heard good things about pontus greeks, in terms of their resolve and prowess
Kanmogtun on
What a bullcr*p. So; you’re saying Orhan Gazi, being fully Turkmen with 3.8 distance, marries a Greek woman from western part of Asia Minor, get a child who can be modelled as Rumelian Turkish with 3.4 distance. Your first pick for founders are completely wrong. Hell, i don’t even know you picked modern coordinates, and where did you pulled each results from? I mean, Turkmens mixed as much as any other people after Seljuqs immigrated. Even then, a Turkmen and Anatolian Greek mixture will be positioned closer to Anatolian Turks than Rumelians. After another marriage with Anatolian Greek, it should get closer to more Anatolian Turks, because Rumelian Turks have non-negligible Slavic input, and not to Ashkenazi since neither party had any Jewish dna. Like all these aren’t enough Sultan Suleiman’s mother was Crimean Tatar origin.
Plus, what do the “Ottoman” even mean? Did you mean Turkish, Turkic or Turkmen?
![The genetic evolution of Ottoman Sultans [OC]](https://www.byteseu.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/ki8ozlhm7nmg1-1024x768.png "The genetic evolution of Ottoman Sultans [OC]")
13 Comments
What the hell is your source for this
Source:
the genetic data of modern populations was obtained on [https://vahaduo.github.io/g25download/](https://vahaduo.github.io/g25download/)
The comparison of the sultans to modern population was done through [https://vahaduo.github.io/vahaduo/](https://vahaduo.github.io/vahaduo/)
The historical data used for the geneaology of the Sultans was obtained on [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sultans_of_the_Ottoman_Empire](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sultans_of_the_Ottoman_Empire)
The simulated g25 coordinates for the sultans are as follows
Ottoman_Turkoman,0.088213,-0.000254,0.0001885,-0.02543625,-0.02700525,-0.010737,0.0062275,0.00461525,-0.01319175,-0.00059225,-0.00856575,0.0045335,-0.00527775,-0.0045415,-0.00010175,-0.00092825,0.00342275,0.000665,0.0047135,0.00397075,-0.00795475,-0.0019785,0.00123225,0.000934,-0.0011975
Murad_I,0.098173,0.071468,0.005751,-0.027738,0.001850,-0.004253,0.004229,0.005480,-0.005557,0.002874,0.004009,0.007463,-0.002489,-0.004724,0.006830,-0.009286,-0.004985,-0.003123,0.001280,0.005065,-0.008542,-0.005419,0.002409,0.004904,0.000968
Bayezid_I,0.1037215,0.1078365,-0.0001415,-0.0340565,0.0090805,-0.0071465,0.0037595,0.000317,-0.006051,0.01064,0.0015985,0.005455,-0.0028055,-0.0015365,-0.0035065,-0.002853,0.0063085,-0.003525,0.003531,0.0019695,-0.007827,0.001433,-0.001014,0.0040185,-0.005324
Mehmed_I_Proxy,0.11355275,0.12429425,0.00547275,-0.02571675,0.01614225,-0.00705925,0.00439425,0.001497,-0.0030665,0.01168,0.00083175,0.004361,-0.00207175,0.00168125,-0.01016775,-0.0020365,0.00698775,-0.0012935,0.0064915,-0.00089125,-0.007108,0.0024355,0.000713,0.00246725,-0.0053445
Murad_II,0.10088288,0.06202013,0.00283063,-0.0255765,-0.0054315,-0.00889813,0.00531088,0.00305613,-0.00812913,0.00554388,-0.003867,0.00444725,-0.00367475,-0.00143013,-0.00513475,-0.00148238,0.00520525,-0.00031425,0.0056025,0.00153975,-0.00753138,0.0002285,0.00097263,0.00170063,-0.003271
Mehmed_II,0.11213344,0.10138606,0.00695881,-0.02147675,0.00888625,-0.00793506,0.00516994,0.00286656,-0.00410556,0.00913194,-0.001901,0.00385713,-0.00250638,0.00173444,-0.01098188,-0.00135119,0.00643613,0.00031188,0.00752725,-0.00110613,-0.00696019,0.00183325,0.00170631,0.00130831,-0.004318
Bayezid_II,0.11753122,0.12533453,0.00555341,-0.02301238,0.01906113,-0.00954553,0.00411247,0.00235628,0.00183322,0.01094447,-0.0005445,0.00297757,-0.00385469,0.00554622,-0.01322694,-0.0052501,0.00008907,0.00243644,0.01042563,-0.00618057,-0.0059131,0.00202963,0.00344116,-0.00115335,-0.005452
Selim_I_Proxy,0.11453911,0.12918427,-0.02249030,-0.04235269,-0.00293344,-0.01704377,0.00370124,-0.00205236,-0.01565039,0.00638324,0.00216375,0.00471079,-0.00690735,0.00504411,-0.01217797,-0.00189605,0.01288754,-0.00030228,0.00131632,-0.00152729,-0.00027355,0.00175682,-0.00025142,0.00159233,-0.00332450
Suleiman_I_Proxy,0.11896155,0.13496813,-0.00570165,-0.02986485,0.01013528,-0.01200789,0.00436512,0.00031232,-0.00786619,0.00955162,0.00111438,0.00398889,-0.00412268,0.00497155,-0.01450348,-0.00155803,0.01027727,0.00031786,0.00538416,-0.00263965,-0.00333127,0.00259741,0.00109429,0.00125416,-0.00434475
Selim_II_Proxy,0.12606728,0.12993907,0.03109018,0.01171508,0.02630214,0.00473356,0.00794056,0.01107516,-0.00168310,-0.00242269,-0.00277181,-0.00190206,0.00299316,0.01445878,-0.01301974,-0.00190602,0.00500814,-0.00015757,0.00212658,0.00080618,-0.00597064,-0.00185430,0.00251915,-0.00202392,-0.00390888
Murad_III_Proxy,0.12848214,0.13910304,0.02742459,0.00182004,0.03053907,0.00445828,0.00502778,0.00542208,0.00222645,0.00917616,-0.00585141,0.00189647,-0.00772042,0.00358239,-0.01030987,0.00123449,0.00765407,0.00296172,0.00433129,0.00052809,-0.00304782,0.00166935,0.00101308,-0.00299996,-0.00189444
Mehmed_III_Proxy,0.12286007,0.14317752,0.02050030,-0.01071798,0.02619454,-0.00265136,0.00274889,0.00386504,0.00397673,0.01524908,-0.00243871,0.00154774,-0.00646171,0.00798420,-0.01350194,-0.00170326,0.01112854,0.00186086,0.00480515,-0.00236246,-0.00763791,0.00003118,0.00099954,-0.00101798,-0.00136622
Ahmed_I_Proxy,0.12574004,0.13962926,0.03476315,0.00513851,0.03110077,0.00453082,0.00536945,0.00435552,0.00260187,0.00662204,-0.00219386,-0.00139913,-0.00122386,0.0112861,-0.01231547,-0.00204513,0.01084477,-0.00097007,0.00510508,0.00125727,-0.00712546,-0.00350841,0.00395077,-0.00014749,-0.00415561
Murad_IV_Ibrahim_I_Proxy,0.11693602,0.14039413,0.01059357,-0.01907174,0.01908938,-0.00233609,0.00374222,0.00298526,-0.00176707,0.01479202,0.00028357,-0.00062456,-0.00306493,0.00853305,-0.01056873,-0.00089006,0.01213738,-0.00010503,0.00619754,-0.00199786,-0.00693173,-0.00354720,0.00185238,-0.00073625,0.00004230
So, this of course doesn’t have the genetic materials of the Ottomans, right?
Same genetic evolution happened elsewhere when conquering dynasties kept marrying local women for generations because the conquerors themselves were all male, e.g. the Normans, the Mughals, the Magyars, the Mongols.
Wait how did you test the genes of ottoman sultans? Did you go back in time and get them to spit in a tube?
Is this based on the assumption that all the mothers are of their ethnicity’s pure race? If so this data makes 0 sense.
Surely the Y chromosome would remain ottoman
Yellow text on a white background!?
On the one hand, this is essentially guesswork and other Redditors have correctly pointed out that it relies on a lot of assumptions about both the Ottoman male line and their slaves.
On the other hand, there’s a lot of effort been put into this and I like the fact that it neatly demonstrates the absurdity of some common assumptions about ethnic essentialism in general and Turkish nationalism in particular (and yes, I know that many Turkish nationalists aren’t great fans of the Ottoman dynasty).
This table has no meaning. You cannot measure something you don’t even know. There are too many variables and unknowns.
I’ve heard good things about pontus greeks, in terms of their resolve and prowess
What a bullcr*p. So; you’re saying Orhan Gazi, being fully Turkmen with 3.8 distance, marries a Greek woman from western part of Asia Minor, get a child who can be modelled as Rumelian Turkish with 3.4 distance. Your first pick for founders are completely wrong. Hell, i don’t even know you picked modern coordinates, and where did you pulled each results from? I mean, Turkmens mixed as much as any other people after Seljuqs immigrated. Even then, a Turkmen and Anatolian Greek mixture will be positioned closer to Anatolian Turks than Rumelians. After another marriage with Anatolian Greek, it should get closer to more Anatolian Turks, because Rumelian Turks have non-negligible Slavic input, and not to Ashkenazi since neither party had any Jewish dna. Like all these aren’t enough Sultan Suleiman’s mother was Crimean Tatar origin.
Plus, what do the “Ottoman” even mean? Did you mean Turkish, Turkic or Turkmen?
Hmm ottoman as an ethnicity… Sounds accurate