There’s a lot more to add from Germany. Friedrich Merz has been incredibly patient and accomodative of Trump until now but the energy crisis seems to have finally forced him and his government to say openly what has been on the minds of most American allies until now.
> Boris Pistorius, the German defense minister, said at a news conference in Berlin on Monday. “We want diplomatic solutions and a swift end to the conflict, but sending more warships to the region will likely not help achieve that,” he said.
>“What does Donald Trump expect from, say, a handful or two of European frigates in the Strait of Hormuz?” he added. “He needs them to achieve what the mighty US Navy cannot manage on its own there, is that it? That’s the question I’m asking myself.”
Well said.
Till now the Trump administration and its MAGA base has been openly contemptuous of any and all dissent regarding this war from European leaders and declared them all as weak and irrelevant.
Now that it is clear that not even a single American ally anywhere in the world is going to come forward to help them secure Benjamin Netanyahu’s Greater Israel fantasies and re-election campaign, perhaps they’ll finally introspect on whether this war was actually a bad idea after all.
demostv on
Pottery Barn rule.
Cannot-Forget on
Note that while the Houthis closed down the pass to Suez, which mainly effects Europe, it was the US doing the heavy lifting. Including both fighting and eventually forcing the Houthis to stop targeting international ships.
NATO nations are determined to prove Trump was right when he constantly referred to them as useless hypocrites.
Edit: The hive is mad.
CellNo5383 on
India already has an agreement with Iran to let their ships pass unmolested. If the US can’t figure this out, there is every incentive for other nations to follow. For the middle east, that will probably come in exchange for closing US military bases. If Trump isn’t careful, this may just turn into a major strategic setback in the region.
As for Europe, I think we should take this as an incentive to further decouple our economies from fossil fuels all together. Then they can all bomb each other as much as they want down there.
AddieCam on
lol the only way they join in is if premium gas runs out and they can’t drive their fast cars
Terrible-Group-9602 on
Typical Germany. We want oil supplies but we’ll let others do the dirty work of securing the supplies for us.
MeatPiston on
You break you buy
APC2_19 on
We cant lend them our ships we need them to protect Greenland.
petepro on
LOL. I don’t think people realize why Trump asked for this? This is the same move he did with the egg last year. You think he really expected Europe to help? He was building anti-European sentiment in the US. He had no problem to refuse Ukraine’s help. I will be bold and say that he made an excuse to take Kerg island which force Iran to close the strait. People say that’s Trump’s weakness. But i think he wants it to closed.
nasandre on
Finally can break free from the hold Israel has on Germany for so long.
Fun-Sell-1592 on
Trump needs to be in the old age nursing home.
BestAd6480 on
Thank you Germany. Let this imbecile drown. -from America.
LymelightTO on
The entire point of the ask is to demonstrate rhetorically that Europe will not even mobilize defense assets in its own naked self-interest. Europe simply expects the US to do everything in the world, even if it doesn’t benefit the US to do it, example #425.
The US knows damn well that European ships wouldn’t really “solve” anything, it would be a token gesture to establish that Europe is willing to participate in its own foreign policy interests, the fact that they still don’t seem to get this is hilarious. Absolute basket cases.
curiousgeorgeasks on
From a purely rational and realpolitik perspective, can someone explain why they believe the US is compelled to proactively resolve the strait issue vs wait it out until other countries (Europe, Asia) are compelled to act upon it and force Iran out of the strait?
From my perspective, the US under Trump has already shown disregard for international morality, so I don’t think moral reasons would compel US action. “They caused the issue so they must fix it” is not a rationale that this administration would care for.
From an economic/trade perspective, the US is harmed by the oil blockade, but Europe and Asia is harmed more. And they could potentially face a serious physical shortage within a couple months. The US is insulated from an actual physical shortage, probably.
And Iran does not have the ability to selectively enforce an embargo, despite their claims. Their ability is indiscriminate, by making all naval passage through the strait uninsurable, for example with mines.
And finally, the calculus will be for other countries: is it easier to pound Iran into submission and relieve their ability to harass the strait or is it easier to force America into “fixing” the issue with Iran. An Iran focused solution will be kinetic by nature. A US focused solution will have to be political by nature. I don’t know which is more doable, but I suspect Europe and Asia would prefer the diplomatic/political route with US since it keeps their hands clean. But if Trump holds firm, what other options do they have but to take the situation into their own hands and reopen the strait?
kishaloy on
Right now is actually a pretty good time for the Europeans for a proper military rupture with US.
The Ukraine war will end one way or another despite them. US is pretty much out apart from selling weapons. The Russians are exhausted and likely to remain so for a decade. This is the best time to give the Americans a diplomatic finger. Europeans even if Germany properly rearms and form a loose alliance with France and a few others can be a formidable force.
15 Comments
There’s a lot more to add from Germany. Friedrich Merz has been incredibly patient and accomodative of Trump until now but the energy crisis seems to have finally forced him and his government to say openly what has been on the minds of most American allies until now.
https://www.ft.com/content/35a07cb7-109c-47a5-a85d-7701fa7becf4
> Boris Pistorius, the German defense minister, said at a news conference in Berlin on Monday. “We want diplomatic solutions and a swift end to the conflict, but sending more warships to the region will likely not help achieve that,” he said.
>“What does Donald Trump expect from, say, a handful or two of European frigates in the Strait of Hormuz?” he added. “He needs them to achieve what the mighty US Navy cannot manage on its own there, is that it? That’s the question I’m asking myself.”
Well said.
Till now the Trump administration and its MAGA base has been openly contemptuous of any and all dissent regarding this war from European leaders and declared them all as weak and irrelevant.
Now that it is clear that not even a single American ally anywhere in the world is going to come forward to help them secure Benjamin Netanyahu’s Greater Israel fantasies and re-election campaign, perhaps they’ll finally introspect on whether this war was actually a bad idea after all.
Pottery Barn rule.
Note that while the Houthis closed down the pass to Suez, which mainly effects Europe, it was the US doing the heavy lifting. Including both fighting and eventually forcing the Houthis to stop targeting international ships.
NATO nations are determined to prove Trump was right when he constantly referred to them as useless hypocrites.
Edit: The hive is mad.
India already has an agreement with Iran to let their ships pass unmolested. If the US can’t figure this out, there is every incentive for other nations to follow. For the middle east, that will probably come in exchange for closing US military bases. If Trump isn’t careful, this may just turn into a major strategic setback in the region.
As for Europe, I think we should take this as an incentive to further decouple our economies from fossil fuels all together. Then they can all bomb each other as much as they want down there.
lol the only way they join in is if premium gas runs out and they can’t drive their fast cars
Typical Germany. We want oil supplies but we’ll let others do the dirty work of securing the supplies for us.
You break you buy
We cant lend them our ships we need them to protect Greenland.
LOL. I don’t think people realize why Trump asked for this? This is the same move he did with the egg last year. You think he really expected Europe to help? He was building anti-European sentiment in the US. He had no problem to refuse Ukraine’s help. I will be bold and say that he made an excuse to take Kerg island which force Iran to close the strait. People say that’s Trump’s weakness. But i think he wants it to closed.
Finally can break free from the hold Israel has on Germany for so long.
Trump needs to be in the old age nursing home.
Thank you Germany. Let this imbecile drown. -from America.
The entire point of the ask is to demonstrate rhetorically that Europe will not even mobilize defense assets in its own naked self-interest. Europe simply expects the US to do everything in the world, even if it doesn’t benefit the US to do it, example #425.
The US knows damn well that European ships wouldn’t really “solve” anything, it would be a token gesture to establish that Europe is willing to participate in its own foreign policy interests, the fact that they still don’t seem to get this is hilarious. Absolute basket cases.
From a purely rational and realpolitik perspective, can someone explain why they believe the US is compelled to proactively resolve the strait issue vs wait it out until other countries (Europe, Asia) are compelled to act upon it and force Iran out of the strait?
From my perspective, the US under Trump has already shown disregard for international morality, so I don’t think moral reasons would compel US action. “They caused the issue so they must fix it” is not a rationale that this administration would care for.
From an economic/trade perspective, the US is harmed by the oil blockade, but Europe and Asia is harmed more. And they could potentially face a serious physical shortage within a couple months. The US is insulated from an actual physical shortage, probably.
And Iran does not have the ability to selectively enforce an embargo, despite their claims. Their ability is indiscriminate, by making all naval passage through the strait uninsurable, for example with mines.
And finally, the calculus will be for other countries: is it easier to pound Iran into submission and relieve their ability to harass the strait or is it easier to force America into “fixing” the issue with Iran. An Iran focused solution will be kinetic by nature. A US focused solution will have to be political by nature. I don’t know which is more doable, but I suspect Europe and Asia would prefer the diplomatic/political route with US since it keeps their hands clean. But if Trump holds firm, what other options do they have but to take the situation into their own hands and reopen the strait?
Right now is actually a pretty good time for the Europeans for a proper military rupture with US.
The Ukraine war will end one way or another despite them. US is pretty much out apart from selling weapons. The Russians are exhausted and likely to remain so for a decade. This is the best time to give the Americans a diplomatic finger. Europeans even if Germany properly rearms and form a loose alliance with France and a few others can be a formidable force.