It’s not the worst crime, it’s bad but there’s worse.
FlaviousTiberius on
The headline neglects the part where it turns out it’s just yet another bid to get money out of the west. We didn’t sign it because it would sign us up for paying out a load of money we don’t actually have, unless we’re willing to accept big budget cuts and higher taxes to pay for it.
KhaosByDesignUK on
It’s a complicated topic and it’s definitely up there, but I feel like genocide is worse though?
SavageRabbitX on
If they want reparations for the Slave trade. We want paying for using our Navy to end it
Invictus_0x90_ on
Are they gunna ask for reparations from the eastern slave traders? I think not.
RECTUSANALUS on
Its one of but not the gravest crime against humanity.
And getting exclusivley western nations to pay up is beyond hypocritical.
SalamanderGlad9053 on
Slavery has happened for all of human history by almost everyone. Countries should be paying the UK for being the first major power to ban slavery and enforce this ban internationally.
AlexJWyn on
The Independent is awful with its misleading, clickbaity headlines. The first two sentences of the article show what a nothing burger this story is in reality:
*The UN General Assembly has formally recognised the trafficking of enslaved Africans as “the gravest crime against humanity,” while also calling for reparations to address historical injustices.*
*The resolution, passed on Wednesday, additionally urges the “prompt and unhindered restitution” of cultural artefacts – including artworks, monuments, and national archives – to their countries of origin without charge.*
I wouldn’t have supported this nonsense either. All slavery is wicked, whatever the time or the continent. And paying reparations, where all the villains and monsters are long, long dead, is not happening. Ever.
thehighyellowmoon on
Why should the UK pay money to tinpot dictatorships who loot their own countries and keep their populations at the other end of a gun over something that happened with their complicity 400-200 years ago?
Univeralise on
Its good to understand the complexities of our history so we can strive to better and not make the same mistakes as the people before us.
But in the same part; this really is just virtue signaling. We do not charge someone’s child when there father has committed a crime. Why should we have to pay for something we had no control over.
It’s an oversimplification but it feels equivalent of asking a nation like Mongolia to pay reparations for the damage Genghis Khan did to other nations.
helpmaboabjings on
Meh we’ve given enough at this point. Time to move on and let them pick themselves up
Honestly get over it already, it’s just holding them back
oncemorein2thebeach on
I see the UN is doing its best to reduce its influence and importance by encouraging even more countries to totally ignore it.
MaleficentMajima on
UK ended slavery, plus the UK was not even the top dog in the slave trade.
I swear all the big slave nations like Portugal are loving the fact the UK is getting all the hate while they go unseen.
PurahsHero on
I actually want them to proceed with this. Lets open this up and have a honest conversation about it. And don’t just talk about the Atlantic Slave Trade, but how about all slavery is the ‘gravest crime against humanity.’
Then, when we start to talk reparations, we have an open and honest conversation about it. That includes slavery committed by all countries, and about those who benefitted from slavery in all countries throughout history, and how they need to pay for it. You know, like the African tribes who sold their men into slavery of their own free will.
This includes slavery that is still committed today by many countries who have been the most vocal about this. It is estimated that there are 7 million slaves in Africa today.
Unless, of course, those slaves are somehow lesser than the slaves in the Atlantic Slave Trade that we managed to crush in probably the single biggest action to actually tackle the slave trade in history.
Voice_Still on
Even if Britain did pay, you know full well the money would not be put to good use and would line the pockets of a corrupt minority.
NGeoTeacher on
This is such an unhelpful headline, and the vote itself is just…weird. The UK was right to abstain (or reject it).
It’s not just ‘slavery’, which would be one thing, it’s specifically Transatlantic slavery. Creating a hierarchy of crimes against humanity serves no purpose, and it lessens the seriousness of all the other cases of slavery, past and present (or victims of genocide or any number of other atrocities). Millions of people continue to live as slaves today, or in conditions that aren’t technically slavery, but effectively slavery. Including, and *especially,* in the countries that voted for this motion, i.e. much of the Middle East and West/North Africa.
I happen to support returning of looted artefacts, and I support international aid, which the UK does a lot of. However, there’s no sensible way of calculating a specific figure of what is owed in the form of reparations, nor who owes what to who. It’s also highly questionable, given the legacy of bilateral aid, whether we’d see meaningful development as a result.
Hellstorm901 on
Rich of China to vote for this when China engages in modern day slavery but I guess they get to vote for stuff like this when their government recognised slavery can only be against human beings and China doesn’t define the Uighur as that
fayemoonlight on
I say this as a black person, there is no single gravest crime against humanity. There are things which are the epitome of evil, and that includes the Atlantic Slave Trade (which was different to other forms of slavery up until that point so it’s not comparable). I don’t like this whole competition on who has suffered the most. Humans have done so much evil shit in the last 200,000 years; it’s impossible and incredibly unhelpful to try and powerscale trauma
brocanyouchillout on
no duh? it’s trying to turn it into some trauma olympics where it’s declared the single worst thing that’s ever happened, disregarding the other slave trades (which shipped MORE), disregarding the current ON-GOING slave trades, disregarding the various genocides, disregarding basically a whole load of horrible stuff. it’s silly. there are only a few legitimate countries that deserve reparations because they are still suffering TODAY. the decendants of the slave trade aren’t suffering on that scale, nowhere near. it’s stupid tbh. we all know it was a terrible thing but it does not deserve precedence when humanity’s history and our modern day is FILLED with abhorrent actions.
Any_Tomorrow_Today on
Until they address the current African slave trade – they really don’t have a leg to stand on.
Aggravating-Curve755 on
We took out the largest loan ever taken out to end slavery and only finished paying it in 2015.
We’ve certainly done more than most to end it.
Otherwise-Factor8099 on
Are the African tribe leaders who sold their own people in to slavery going to pay reparations ? The silence from them says it all, hypocrites .
DateNecessary8716 on
1. It wasn’t slavery, it was specifically the trans-atlantic slave trade, modern slavery, and the many cultures and civilisations that have, are and will enslave were left out, it’s just the West that’s evil.
2. It states it was the single most abhorrent event in human history, firstly, it wasn’t the largest enslavement, longest, etc. I believe Korea holds the record for the longest unbroken chain of slavery (pun un-intended). But holy subjectiveness! Would you say the genocide of millions, the experimentation on live subjects or the testing of explosives on pregnant women was less abhorrent? It’s just so stupid to discuss in that light.
3. It demands reparations (It’s a cash grab), which leaves out the inconvenient truth of who sold the slaves to Europe and America, and conveniently again, the countries that have and continue to enslave.
It’s a cynical cash-grab, nothing more. African states want a free check. None of this is to downplay the horrors of the British Empire slave trade, but if we actually roll out reparations for the sins of the past, how far back we going? Are we just going to exchange cash in a circle for all of history?
audigex on
Completely agree with this abstention. If not for the optics, I’d prefer us to vote against it
First up, let me be clear that I’m completely against slavery
But with that said
1. The idea of declaring things about something that happened hundreds of years ago like this is performative nonsense
2. Declaring one genocide as being worse than another is ridiculous
3. It’s mostly an attempt to extract money from Europe and the USA to Africa … not even to the people who were actually trafficked to the US/Caribbean as slaves
4. I’m fundamentally against the principle of “the child paying for the sins of the father” (or rather, great great great great grandchild and great great great great grandfather)
5. My g.g.g.g. grandparents were poor working class types and had absolutely fuck all to do with slavery. The same is true for almost all the taxpayers who would fund this nonsense
The whole idea is ridiculous. Not one person alive today had ANYTHING to do with Africans being taken to the Americas as slaves. It sucks that it happened but it’s nothing to do with any of us
If they wanna sue the wealthy direct descendants of slaveowners for damages then that’s for the courts to decide, but even that’s tenuous as shit
24 Comments
It’s not the worst crime, it’s bad but there’s worse.
The headline neglects the part where it turns out it’s just yet another bid to get money out of the west. We didn’t sign it because it would sign us up for paying out a load of money we don’t actually have, unless we’re willing to accept big budget cuts and higher taxes to pay for it.
It’s a complicated topic and it’s definitely up there, but I feel like genocide is worse though?
If they want reparations for the Slave trade. We want paying for using our Navy to end it
Are they gunna ask for reparations from the eastern slave traders? I think not.
Its one of but not the gravest crime against humanity.
And getting exclusivley western nations to pay up is beyond hypocritical.
Slavery has happened for all of human history by almost everyone. Countries should be paying the UK for being the first major power to ban slavery and enforce this ban internationally.
The Independent is awful with its misleading, clickbaity headlines. The first two sentences of the article show what a nothing burger this story is in reality:
*The UN General Assembly has formally recognised the trafficking of enslaved Africans as “the gravest crime against humanity,” while also calling for reparations to address historical injustices.*
*The resolution, passed on Wednesday, additionally urges the “prompt and unhindered restitution” of cultural artefacts – including artworks, monuments, and national archives – to their countries of origin without charge.*
I wouldn’t have supported this nonsense either. All slavery is wicked, whatever the time or the continent. And paying reparations, where all the villains and monsters are long, long dead, is not happening. Ever.
Why should the UK pay money to tinpot dictatorships who loot their own countries and keep their populations at the other end of a gun over something that happened with their complicity 400-200 years ago?
Its good to understand the complexities of our history so we can strive to better and not make the same mistakes as the people before us.
But in the same part; this really is just virtue signaling. We do not charge someone’s child when there father has committed a crime. Why should we have to pay for something we had no control over.
It’s an oversimplification but it feels equivalent of asking a nation like Mongolia to pay reparations for the damage Genghis Khan did to other nations.
Meh we’ve given enough at this point. Time to move on and let them pick themselves up
Honestly get over it already, it’s just holding them back
I see the UN is doing its best to reduce its influence and importance by encouraging even more countries to totally ignore it.
UK ended slavery, plus the UK was not even the top dog in the slave trade.
I swear all the big slave nations like Portugal are loving the fact the UK is getting all the hate while they go unseen.
I actually want them to proceed with this. Lets open this up and have a honest conversation about it. And don’t just talk about the Atlantic Slave Trade, but how about all slavery is the ‘gravest crime against humanity.’
Then, when we start to talk reparations, we have an open and honest conversation about it. That includes slavery committed by all countries, and about those who benefitted from slavery in all countries throughout history, and how they need to pay for it. You know, like the African tribes who sold their men into slavery of their own free will.
This includes slavery that is still committed today by many countries who have been the most vocal about this. It is estimated that there are 7 million slaves in Africa today.
Unless, of course, those slaves are somehow lesser than the slaves in the Atlantic Slave Trade that we managed to crush in probably the single biggest action to actually tackle the slave trade in history.
Even if Britain did pay, you know full well the money would not be put to good use and would line the pockets of a corrupt minority.
This is such an unhelpful headline, and the vote itself is just…weird. The UK was right to abstain (or reject it).
It’s not just ‘slavery’, which would be one thing, it’s specifically Transatlantic slavery. Creating a hierarchy of crimes against humanity serves no purpose, and it lessens the seriousness of all the other cases of slavery, past and present (or victims of genocide or any number of other atrocities). Millions of people continue to live as slaves today, or in conditions that aren’t technically slavery, but effectively slavery. Including, and *especially,* in the countries that voted for this motion, i.e. much of the Middle East and West/North Africa.
I happen to support returning of looted artefacts, and I support international aid, which the UK does a lot of. However, there’s no sensible way of calculating a specific figure of what is owed in the form of reparations, nor who owes what to who. It’s also highly questionable, given the legacy of bilateral aid, whether we’d see meaningful development as a result.
Rich of China to vote for this when China engages in modern day slavery but I guess they get to vote for stuff like this when their government recognised slavery can only be against human beings and China doesn’t define the Uighur as that
I say this as a black person, there is no single gravest crime against humanity. There are things which are the epitome of evil, and that includes the Atlantic Slave Trade (which was different to other forms of slavery up until that point so it’s not comparable). I don’t like this whole competition on who has suffered the most. Humans have done so much evil shit in the last 200,000 years; it’s impossible and incredibly unhelpful to try and powerscale trauma
no duh? it’s trying to turn it into some trauma olympics where it’s declared the single worst thing that’s ever happened, disregarding the other slave trades (which shipped MORE), disregarding the current ON-GOING slave trades, disregarding the various genocides, disregarding basically a whole load of horrible stuff. it’s silly. there are only a few legitimate countries that deserve reparations because they are still suffering TODAY. the decendants of the slave trade aren’t suffering on that scale, nowhere near. it’s stupid tbh. we all know it was a terrible thing but it does not deserve precedence when humanity’s history and our modern day is FILLED with abhorrent actions.
Until they address the current African slave trade – they really don’t have a leg to stand on.
We took out the largest loan ever taken out to end slavery and only finished paying it in 2015.
We’ve certainly done more than most to end it.
Are the African tribe leaders who sold their own people in to slavery going to pay reparations ? The silence from them says it all, hypocrites .
1. It wasn’t slavery, it was specifically the trans-atlantic slave trade, modern slavery, and the many cultures and civilisations that have, are and will enslave were left out, it’s just the West that’s evil.
2. It states it was the single most abhorrent event in human history, firstly, it wasn’t the largest enslavement, longest, etc. I believe Korea holds the record for the longest unbroken chain of slavery (pun un-intended). But holy subjectiveness! Would you say the genocide of millions, the experimentation on live subjects or the testing of explosives on pregnant women was less abhorrent? It’s just so stupid to discuss in that light.
3. It demands reparations (It’s a cash grab), which leaves out the inconvenient truth of who sold the slaves to Europe and America, and conveniently again, the countries that have and continue to enslave.
It’s a cynical cash-grab, nothing more. African states want a free check. None of this is to downplay the horrors of the British Empire slave trade, but if we actually roll out reparations for the sins of the past, how far back we going? Are we just going to exchange cash in a circle for all of history?
Completely agree with this abstention. If not for the optics, I’d prefer us to vote against it
First up, let me be clear that I’m completely against slavery
But with that said
1. The idea of declaring things about something that happened hundreds of years ago like this is performative nonsense
2. Declaring one genocide as being worse than another is ridiculous
3. It’s mostly an attempt to extract money from Europe and the USA to Africa … not even to the people who were actually trafficked to the US/Caribbean as slaves
4. I’m fundamentally against the principle of “the child paying for the sins of the father” (or rather, great great great great grandchild and great great great great grandfather)
5. My g.g.g.g. grandparents were poor working class types and had absolutely fuck all to do with slavery. The same is true for almost all the taxpayers who would fund this nonsense
The whole idea is ridiculous. Not one person alive today had ANYTHING to do with Africans being taken to the Americas as slaves. It sucks that it happened but it’s nothing to do with any of us
If they wanna sue the wealthy direct descendants of slaveowners for damages then that’s for the courts to decide, but even that’s tenuous as shit