BAKU, Azerbaijan, October 5. The
Azerbaijani Army launched a counter-offensive operation, later
called the “Iron Fist”, on September 27, 2020 in response to the
large-scale provocation of the Armenian armed forces along the
frontline.
The erupted 44-day Second Karabakh War ended with liberation
of Azerbaijan’s territories from nearly 30-year Armenian
occupation.
On October 5, 2020, President of the Republic of Azerbaijan
Ilham Aliyev had been interviewed by TRT Haber (News) TV
channel.
Trend presents
the interview.
– Mr. President and Commander-in-Chief Ilham Aliyev,
welcome to TRT Haber. Thank you for your time. How much of the
occupied land has been taken back so far? What is the current stage
of the fighting and is it going according to plan?
– Yes, everything is going according to plan. So far, all the
tasks we had set for ourselves have been fulfilled. The Azerbaijani
Army is advancing successfully. Many settlements, one city and
several villages were liberated from occupation. Currently, fierce
battles are taking place in various directions.
As you know, the city of Jabrayil and several villages of
Jabrayil district were liberated yesterday. I hope that the
Azerbaijani Army will continue to successfully fulfill its mission
and the territorial integrity of Azerbaijan will be restored. This
is our main goal. This goal will secure historical justice. At the
same time, it should also be viewed as respect for international
law because Nagorno-Karabakh and other occupied territories are the
historical lands of Azerbaijan. From the point of view of
international law, these lands belong to the Azerbaijani state.
– In response to the ceasefire calls, you said that you
did not call any country’s leader, but simply assessed the
situation with those who wanted to talk. You stressed that the
prime minister of Armenia Pashinyan, as usual, called and begged
many heads of state. Based on your past experience, do you think
that other countries’ ceasefire calls will work this
time?
– The ceasefire must be provided under certain conditions. The
calls we have received so far are simply intended to ensure a
ceasefire, stop the war and then continue discussions. It is not
being elaborated to us what kind of discussions there may be and on
what basis they may be continued. We have been involved in these
discussions for almost 30 years, and we have been doing that with
certain hopes. If we hadn’t had hopes, of course, we would not have
participated in these discussions. Discussions have always been
based on existing principles. Among these principles is the issue
of restoring the territorial integrity of Azerbaijan. Issues of a
gradual liberation of the occupied territories, their return to us
and the maintaining of peace were the subjects of discussion. But
Armenia has launched a new attack on us, violating the principles
we have learned from the very beginning. Of course, we launched a
counter-offensive and are liberating our lands with the help of
Azerbaijani soldiers. Therefore, the issue of restoring the
ceasefire alone cannot be discussed. We have demands. I have
already officially stated this. We must have very serious
guarantees. International mediators must confirm these guarantees
to us. At the same time, we must be given a schedule for Armenia’s
withdrawal from the occupied territories, the dates on which it
will leave each district. Of course, then the war will stop. We
want this issue to be resolved peacefully, but it must be resolved.
Some mediators want a ceasefire. The ceasefire has been in force
since 1994. Why has this issue not been resolved over the years?
Why were the resolutions of the United Nations not implemented? Why
weren’t any sanctions imposed on the aggressor state? All these
questions remain valid. There are no answers to these questions.
Today, as the glorious Army of Azerbaijan conducts its successful
operations and liberates our ancestral lands, these calls are being
made: do not move forward, take a break. War has its own rules, its
own laws. Every day has its own significance. If we take a break,
the other side will gather strength and deploy additional forces.
Their speeches already show that they are also involving Armenians
living outside Armenia in this war. Thus, they want to take this
war out of the regional arena and turn it into a global war.
Therefore, our position on the ceasefire is quite explicit. We are
ready for that but there are certain conditions that I have also
announced.
– You have. You have mentioned guarantees. What kind of
guarantee do you mean?
– First guarantee – the prime minister of Armenia said on our
lands a year ago that “Karabakh is Armenia”. He should apologize to
the people of Azerbaijan. Secondly, he must say that Karabakh is
not Armenia. Third, he must respect the territorial integrity of
Azerbaijan. Fourth, he must declare the dates on which Armenian
armed forces will leave each district. These conditions must be
approved by the Minsk Group co-chairs. In that case, of course, the
ceasefire will be restored, this issue will be resolved through
discussion and the Azerbaijani people will return to their native
lands. But we need to know when this will happen because we have
been waiting for 30 years. The promises given to us and the words
spoken for 30 years have not been implemented. The Azerbaijani
people can no longer stand this. The Azerbaijani state cannot stand
this any longer. We need to be told specific dates of when they
will vacate each district.
– A lot has been said in the 30 years, as you have said.
How will you trust the word that will be given now?
– This is exactly why I say that in addition to words, we must
be given specific dates. If on that date – I do not know whether or
not it will be given – the Armenian armed forces do not withdraw
from the known regions, then we will not observe the ceasefire.
– Can this confrontation lead to a bigger war, a big
regional crisis? Are you worried?
– Armenia already wants that. Their ugly deeds are calculated
for this. We believe that this should not be allowed. This is a war
between Azerbaijan and Armenia. We did not start this war. We are
not the cause of this war. We are simply defending ourselves and
want our lands back. We do not set our sights on Armenian lands. As
a result of the clashes started by Armenians on the
Armenian-Azerbaijani border in July, the Azerbaijani Army did not
cross into Armenian territory, although we could have done that. We
struck them hard and they retreated. There were no obstacles in
front of us. We didn’t do that because, as I said, we do not have
any military targets on the territory of the Republic of Armenia.
Today, Armenia is attacking Azerbaijan from the territory of
Armenia. Yesterday, Ganja was hit from the territory of Armenia,
Mingachevir was hit. We have a big station there. One of the shells
hit the station. True, their shells are such that some of them did
not explode. Some were destroyed by our air defense systems in the
air. They are provoking us to attack Armenia and strike at Armenia.
Then they will start telling the whole world that Azerbaijan is
attacking us, save Armenia, that is, come to Armenia’s rescue.
– If these attacks continue from within the borders of
Armenia, will you defend your current position again
or…?
– It is too early in the day to say that. We will look at the
course of the conflict. In any case, the source of every blow to us
is a legitimate target for us. We will have to hit these targets.
Today, the Azerbaijani Army hits only military targets. This is
already clear to everyone in the videos. Everyone can see that. We
are fighting only against the occupying army of Armenia. We have
never fought against the civilian population. We do not and will
not do that.
-I saw in Gashalti Garagoyunlu that five Azerbaijani
citizens, including two children, were killed. The ultimate goal of
the campaign that started with the Azerbaijani Army’s response to
the Armenian attacks of 27 September is already obvious: resolute
liberation of Nagorno-Karabakh from Armenian occupation. You said
from day one that from now on the fighting will be stopped only
after an unconditional withdrawal of Armenia from the occupied
territories of Azerbaijan. You stick to the same position,
right?
– Yes, there is no change in my position. We must resolve this
issue on the basis of historical justice. Historical justice says
that Karabakh is the land of ancient Azerbaijan, and all historical
documents, all our historical sites confirm it. At the same time,
we have always been very positive at the negotiating table and the
proposals on the table make it possible to resolve this issue. They
state that there should be a step-by-step solution. At the first
stage, Armenians must leave five districts, at the next stage they
must leave two more districts, then Azerbaijanis expelled from
Nagorno-Karabakh must return to Nagorno-Karabakh, including Shusha,
life is restored between two communities, the Armenian-Azerbaijani
border is opened, trade begins, then people come into contact with
each other and thus peace comes to the region. So this is our
position, and this is the attitude of international mediators and
co-chairs. Armenia does not accept this. In addition, the Armenian
defense minister said a few months ago that we must start a new war
for new territories.
– There are three co-chairs of the Minsk Group of the
Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) – the
United States, Russia and France. They are calling for a ceasefire.
Has your answer changed? If your condition is not met, is there a
possibility of a ceasefire before the Armenians withdraw from the
occupied territories?
– There is no change in our position. I said this to you again
today. We are even ready to start working on a ceasefire if we are
given the dates for the withdrawal of the Armenian armed forces
from our lands. But we must also remember that restoring the
ceasefire is not an easy task because a ceasefire is not restored
unilaterally. There are very serious battles at the moment. Both
sides should tell their soldiers and officers on the ground. One
side may follow it, but the other may not. So it is a very
difficult process. But if we are given the dates for the
withdrawal, of course, we will give this instruction. Then, if the
co-chairs of the Minsk Group and other countries, if possible, join
it, the ceasefire can be restored and thus the fighting can be
stopped.
– What do you mean by possible countries?
– Türkiye. Türkiye is a strong state, a country with great
potential in the world, it is our neighbor, the neighbor of
Armenia, the neighbor of the South Caucasus. Therefore, of course,
Türkiye must be active in this process, and I would like to take
this opportunity to thank all our Turkish brothers on my own
behalf, on behalf of the Azerbaijani people, especially my dear
brother, President Recep Tayyip Erdogan. Türkiye’s support from the
first hours is of special importance. It is not just support for
their brothers. This is why we, all the people of Azerbaijan,
express deep gratitude for this. At the same time, Türkiye’s
determination is very important so that these battles do not
escalate. Türkiye has said that we stand by Azerbaijan, we are with
Azerbaijan until the end. Azerbaijan is on the path of truth,
justice is on the side of Azerbaijan, and this was a warning to
many other actors. Therefore, Türkiye must be involved in the
subsequent peace process. Of course, the peace process will begin,
war cannot last forever, and the sooner the better. This is our
opinion, and a lasting peace can be established in the region.
– Mr. President, when you say the co-chairs of the Minsk
Group, you are leaving out France.
– France is leaving itself out, not me. During the entire
process, we treated the co-chairs equally, and I have repeatedly
said in my speeches that Azerbaijan has different relations with
each country. Of course, the level of these relations is different.
At the same time, we do not separate these countries on this issue,
and I must say that these countries were united throughout the
whole process until recently. They were neutral, that is, they did
not take sides. However, we knew that there was probably some bias
in their hearts. This is natural. But they never showed it in
official steps and in contacts with us.
– You urged French President Macron to
apologize.
– Yes, of course, because he accused us. He threw things at us
that were not true. This is unacceptable for our country.
– What were the accusations?
– He said that Azerbaijan, together with Türkiye, brought
terrorists to the region. His said this in a statement. He also
said that “Azerbaijan wants to conquer Nagorno-Karabakh and we will
not allow that”. Nagorno-Karabakh is our land. Can a state conquer
its own lands? In other words, doesn’t the co-chair country know
that the Armenians have illegally settled in these lands and
destroyed all our historical sites, mosques, graves and razed our
houses to the ground? Look at the images of Aghdam and Fuzuli. They
keep pigs and cows in our half-destroyed mosques. This is an insult
to all Muslims. Don’t they see it? Therefore, the words “Azerbaijan
wants to conquer Nagorno-Karabakh and we will not allow that” are
unacceptable. This is why France is already excluding itself from
this equal trio, and we cannot remain silent about it.
– The United Nations Security Council has historic
decisions on this issue.
– Of course, they voted for them themselves. They voted in 1993,
so they should respect their own vote.
– With your permission, I have a few more questions. On
the roads leading to the front line, in the cities and villages we
visited and in the capital Baku last night, we saw the Turkish flag
flying right next to the Azerbaijani. On buildings, offices, cars –
everywhere. There is a similar picture in Türkiye,
as you may have seen in the news. After the victory in Jabrayil,
there were demonstrations in support of brotherly Azerbaijan in the
streets of Türkiye.
– That’s right. We are proud. And this is natural. Our
brotherhood is eternal, and our brotherhood has stood the test of
time. You know that the relations between Türkiye and Azerbaijan
are an example for the whole world. I have repeatedly spoken about
this. I have repeatedly said at joint press conferences with my
dear brother, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan that there are
no other countries in the world as close to each other as Türkiye
and Azerbaijan, and these are not just words. These are heartfelt
sentiments. Our unity is based on our history, our common ethnic
roots, language, religion and brotherhood. The historic service of
my dear brother Tayyib Bey and myself is that we have created a
modern Turkish-Azerbaijani union on a very strong foundation.
Turkish flags are already everywhere in Azerbaijan, and Azerbaijani
flags are everywhere in Türkiye. We are not separate from each
other, we are together. These events have once again shown that
Türkiye was the first to support us unequivocally and decisively.
The very bold and resolute statements of the President of Türkiye
were a warning to many countries – stay away, do not interfere,
Azerbaijan is not alone, it is with Türkiye, and Azerbaijan is
always with Türkiye! We support each other in all matters, on all
platforms, and our unity must last forever.
– In the meantime, I would like to mention Pakistan. I
see their flags everywhere too. Where do you think Russia stands?
Because Russia has a special significance.
– I would like to take this opportunity to express my gratitude
to all other friendly and brotherly countries. After Türkiye, the
second country that supported us was Pakistan, then Afghanistan,
and then several other countries. I thank each of them, the
presidents of those countries. In this difficult period, of course,
their solidarity and support is very important for us and gives us
moral strength.
Russia is our neighbor. Our relations with Russia are developing
successfully. Today, the relations between Russia and Azerbaijan
are at a very high level in many areas. Both countries view this
relationship as a strategic partnership, which is confirmed by the
joint agreements. Russia acts as a very responsible and large
country. Positive messages are coming from Russia, and support for
any party is not a topic of discussion. However, Armenia had high
hopes for that. Armenia’s goal in taking the conflict out of the
region is to engage Russia. Why is Armenia currently attacking
Azerbaijan from the territory of Armenia? Exactly to make us strike
back, so that they could appeal to the general secretariat of the
Collective Security Treaty Organization, of which they are a member
together with Russia and other countries, and say that Azerbaijan
is attacking us, come and help us. Why did they commit this
provocation on the Armenian-Azerbaijani border in July? Tovuz is
located far from the Karabakh region. What goals did they have
there – one goal was to make us launch an attack, cross the state
border – as I said, we had such an opportunity – and then to ask
the organization to come and fight with us against Azerbaijan. In
other words, they want to involve Russia in this. This is yet
another provocation, and I am sure it will not succeed.
– When attacking Tovuz in July, could Armenia pursue any
other goals? For example, to undermine energy security? The TANAP
and Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipelines are coming to mind.
– Yes, of course, this could have happened as well. There were
several goals, because they had been saying before that that if
there were battles around Nagorno-Karabakh, they were ready to
strike at our strategic infrastructure projects – the Sangachal oil
and gas terminal and pipelines. Therefore, another goal of the
attack on Tovuz District was to see how far they could go. Their
main goal there was to cross the state border, occupy Azerbaijani
lands, approach the TANAP pipeline or take control of it. But when
this did not work, they retreated and asked for help from all
mediators. I said that we had no targets in Armenian territory.
Therefore, after four days, the attack stopped.
There may have been another reason. I have already spoken about
this. Currently, Armenia is undergoing a deep crisis – both
political and economic. As a result of the crisis, political ties
within Armenia have been disrupted. Pashinyan’s authorities are
imprisoning the main opposition leaders today. For example, they
have deprived the chairman of the main opposition party of
parliamentary immunity and arrested him. Criminal proceedings have
been instituted against the two previous presidents. There is no
freedom of speech or freedom of assembly. They have taken down the
Constitutional Court by force and brought their own people.
Therefore, there are mounting concerns in Armenia. Pashinyan has
orchestrated this attack in order to distract public opinion,
involve Russia, destroy our strategic infrastructure, stabilize the
situation in the country and occupy a part of Azerbaijani lands in
order to then strengthen their position in the talks.
– Mr. President, let me ask you two more questions. In
the regions where such conflicts, clashes and crises occur, there
is always a smear campaign. What did you observe in this regard
after Armenia launched its attacks? I would like to know your
assessment.
– You know, the smear campaign against Azerbaijan does not stop
for a minute or a second. There are several reasons for this.
First, the Armenian lobby constantly acts against us. Attempts to
slander Azerbaijan, tarnish us and sully our image never stop.
There are Armenian lobbies in many countries of the world. This is
no secret for anyone. They systematically and regularly attack us.
They make up utter lies and slander. During this conflict, the
Armenian lobby naturally mobilized all its forces and made efforts
for a new smear campaign against us. But we are not worried about
this. I told them to provide evidence, proof and facts. I also told
the President of France – he called me twice – to provide facts.
Eight days have passed since 27 September.
– What is Macron saying?
– Nothing, he says that they allegedly have intelligence. I
asked him to share it with us. Where is this intelligence? It is
not there and cannot be.
– What does your intelligence say in connection with
Armenia?
– About what?
– Your intelligence materials dwell on external forces
in Armenia – Lebanon, Syria…
– We do have such data, and they are justified. We are now
verifying them. As a very responsible state, we do not mention that
in our official statements. Of course, such information is
available in the media, to politicians and political scientists.
But we have to confirm this. From the very beginning, we had
intelligence that terrorists had been brought to Nagorno-Karabakh.
They are being stationed and trained here.
– What terrorist groups?
– Terrorist groups such as PKK. There was a lot of information
about this. A few years ago, we raised this issue on international
platforms. They are being trained and it is not ruled out that this
is still the case. I will simply talk about it after I have
100-percent facts in my hands. Today the probability is very high.
But unlike Armenia and some other countries, we do not provide
information that has not been confirmed by 100 percent.
I can give you one more example. We were accused of the fact
that Turkish fighter F-16 shot down Armenian Su-25. I said: provide
evidence. We have information that these are fabrications of the
smear campaign. Today they have got convinced that this is not
true. But has anyone apologized to us? No! They began to slander
us, tried to tarnish us, but then they saw that it was a lie. But
you have to apologize.
– If I am not mistaken, the transfer of armed unmanned
aerial vehicles to the Azerbaijani army has largely influenced the
course of these events.
– Right. This has had a huge impact. Mashallah, these armed
aircraft are of the highest level in the world, and the fact that
they are deployed by the Azerbaijani Army has greatly strengthened
our power. These vehicles have created ample opportunities for us
and, at the same time, enabled us to avoid major human losses.
Because if we had not had these capabilities, it would have been
much more difficult to destroy the fortifications Armenia had built
in Nagorno-Karabakh and the occupied lands in 30 years, their
tanks, cannons and multiple launch rocket systems. More people
could have died. So this perfect and technologically intelligent
product testifies to the potential of the Turkish people. We are a
country with an ally such as Türkiye. We are a very happy country
because we have such an ally and brother as Türkiye. Of course, the
moral support provided to us by Türkiye, as well as the products of
the Turkish defense industry that we have, strengthen us, and the
whole world can see that. The Turkish army is the second strongest
army in NATO today. No-one can resist the Turkish army. Everyone
can see and understand this. We are also building a small model of
the Turkish army. Inshallah, we will build it together. No-one in
the region can resist us either. Our cause and that of Türkiye is a
just cause. We are protecting ourselves and our citizens, we want
to preserve our territorial integrity. We do not claim the lands of
other countries. But what belongs to us must remain with us. For 30
years now, Armenians have been exploiting our ancient land, not
allowing our people to return to these lands. International
mediators remain indifferent and pay no heed. This being the case,
Azerbaijan will do it itself.
– I have shared information about the injury of your
Armenian citizen during the attack on Ganja. We had the opportunity
to conduct round-the-clock observations at the frontline and the
commanders reported that you were calling them.
– Yes, of course, this once again proves that Armenia is a
terrorist country. Their actions are fundamentally contrary to the
Geneva Convention. The shelling of civilians and cities is
unacceptable. The city of Ganja is not a war zone. There are no
guns or tanks in Ganja. Why are you firing at it? Out of hatred!
Hatred of Azerbaijan and Türkiye is in their blood. Unfortunately,
the young generation of Armenia is also being raised in spirit of
such hatred. But this cannot make us deviate from our path. You
know, the city of Tartar is practically destroyed. Our citizens in
Tartar stand bravely and courageously. They are saying that we will
rather die than leave our lands. How many shells have fallen on the
city? There was a day when 2,000 shells fell on Tartar alone. And
this is a small town.
As for my calls to the commanders, they are restoring historical
justice. They are risking their lives. They are heroes, they save,
liberate and return our lands. The liberation of Madagiz from the
occupation is of great strategic importance. The settlement is not
very large, but its strategic importance is tremendous. It is very
difficult to capture it. Any serviceman can confirm this. It is
incredibly difficult. But they captured it, the flag of Azerbaijan
was raised in Madagiz and on the same day its historical name was
returned to the village – Sugovushan. This is our historical
name.
The capture of the city of Jabrayil requires great heroism,
because, let me say again, for the past 30 years, during the
ceasefire, several rows of fortifications were built there, and
quite formidable ones. In addition, the local terrain is a natural
fortification in itself. Nagorno-Karabakh is located in the
mountains. In other words, we are moving from bottom to top.
Everyone understands how difficult it is. Therefore, Azerbaijani
soldiers, Azerbaijani officers and generals are showing true
heroism, courage, perseverance, and ensuring our territorial
integrity at the cost of their lives. Inshallah, we will go forward
to the end.
– After Karabakh and the occupied lands are returned to
Azerbaijan, what will you say to the Armenians living
there?
– I have already said my word. A few days ago, I visited our
wounded soldiers, met with them in a military hospital. I expressed
my gratitude to them and, during the meeting, I addressed the
Armenian people. I understood that it is not so easy to say this in
front of them because they were wounded by the Armenians. But I
said that we have nothing against the Armenian people. The Armenian
people must hold their government accountable. These battles were
the result of the nefarious and dirty policies of their government.
Our position remains unchanged. After the liberation of our lands
and the end of the occupation, the Armenians living in
Nagorno-Karabakh and the Azerbaijanis who will return there will
live together. As two communities on the territory of one country.
Today there are thousands of Armenians living in Azerbaijan. You
also noted that the citizen who was wounded as a result of the
Armenian attack on Ganja is an Armenian by nationality. Armenians
live here. Nobody touches them. They are our citizens. We have no
problems with the Armenian people. They are a hostage of their
government. Unfortunately, when Pashinyan came to power, he
promised a lot. We also hoped that the old criminal regime was
consigned to history. But instead, a new regime came and plunged
its people into further suffering. This regime is killing our
civilians and soldiers today. I am absolutely sure that the
Armenian and Azerbaijani peoples will make up. Today, Armenians and
Azerbaijanis live together in many countries. In Georgia, there are
about 300,000 Azerbaijanis and 200,000 Armenians. Sometimes they
live in the same village. There are no problems between them. In
Türkiye, Russia – there are about 700,000 Azerbaijanis with Russian
citizenship, and they live together. There are no problems. Why
shouldn’t they live here? We used to live together. I remember my
late father and I visiting Nagorno-Karabakh, Shusha in 1982. The
mausoleum of our great poet Vagif was opening. At the opening
ceremony of the mausoleum, Armenian and Azerbaijani poets recited
poems in Azerbaijani and Armenian languages. It was a celebration
of friendship. I witnessed that picture. Armenians used to live in
Baku. We didn’t have any problems. We want to live together again.
To live again as good neighbors with Armenia. The Armenians living
in Nagorno-Karabakh are our citizens. We recognize them as such. I
hope that after the end of this aggressive policy, our peoples will
make up.
– Did your late father bequeath you anything in
connection with Nagorno-Karabakh? If yes, what?
– My father’s path is the guiding light for me. It is my duty as
his son and as President to continue his policy. When I was elected
president for the first time, at the inauguration ceremony, I said
that I would follow the path of Heydar Aliyev, I would not deviate
from this path, which is the only one for Azerbaijan. I am
committed to this path in all areas, in the field of foreign
policy, in the economic and social spheres, including the
Nagorno-Karabakh issue. Because he was also pressured. In his time,
they also exerted pressure on him, demanded that independence be
granted to Nagorno-Karabakh. They said that Nagorno-Karabakh had
seceded from you, broke away from you. He endured and withstood
this pressure. He did not sign a single document that would
contradict the interests of the Azerbaijani people. Because he was
the Leader of our people. There was never any hesitation in my
position on the Karabakh issue either. Today I am saying what I
said 17 years ago: Nagorno-Karabakh is our land, the territorial
integrity of Azerbaijan must be ensured! I will never allow a
second Armenian state to be created on historically Azerbaijani
lands. We are using every opportunity to restore our territorial
integrity. We are getting close to that.
– On behalf of one nation in two states, I express my
deep gratitude to the President of Azerbaijan, Mr. Ilham Aliyev.
You received us in such a situation, during the war. We thank you
as the Commander-in-Chief.
– I also thank you and I am glad that at the end of our
conversation you recalled the famous saying of my father – these
are the words of Heydar Aliyev, and one nation in two states is the
guiding light for Türkiye and Azerbaijan today. Türkiye and
Azerbaijan are one nation in two states.
– Thank you very much.
– Thank you.