Corporations are under-taxed and most of the tax money that has been taken since 2010 has been spent on bailing out banks and funding tax cuts and dodgy contracts for scumbag Tories and their friends, so it *feels* like we’re overtaxed as we’re not getting anything for it.
Besides, does this graph include council tax, national insurance, VAT, etc.?
FewEstablishment2696 on
For the last 45 years people have voted for a succession of low tax governments.
In the 80s and early 90s the government sold off our national assets (energy, water, strategic industries such as steel) and used that money to subsidise low taxes.
When there were no assets left, governments started to run an annual deficit and this happened most years throughout the late 90s, early 00s right up to the present day.
As a result the government now has almost £3 trillion of debt, which costs £100 billion per year in interest alone and the annual deficit is still in the region of £120 billion.
This means every year the total debt increases, as does the interest costs.
We, the taxpayer, are now spending around 8% of total annual government spending on debt interest alone. This is almost the same as the entire education budget and nearly double what we spend on defence.
The simple fact is, taxes are too low. Everyone needs to pay a bit more, going from the lowest earner to the richest billionaire.
Fellowes321 on
… and still working people are needing to use foodbanks.
Perhaps it’s more complicated.
Personal_Lab_484 on
The thing we need to get across is we’re abnormal in that the lowest paid pay no tax. This is not a thing outside UK. We’re also abnormal in that our top 5% pay the highest tax % of any group. We’re also abnormal in that not paying a pence for a doctor appointment is odd, and no, the American system is not the only alternative.
If we grew up and followed European lead we would have so much more for it important infrastructure but we insist on a model that no other OECD country follows and are suprised by the poor results.
ohnoohno69 on
If any gov. Puts a universal tax increase, it would only go to some dodgy mates contract or a firm they are going to be a non ex director of after politics. The UK is deeply corrupt and the COVID scandals simply shone a brief torch on it. All of them as bad as each other. The only honest ones get absolutely sidelined. Heading back to Ragged Trouser territory at pace.
Jamie00003 on
Would love to see the same graph for the richest in the country, then maybe they can shut up about being taxed more….and hopefully, we can then tax even more
R3DSmurf on
Taxes are fair but the pound has no value, that’s the problem along with wages stagnating
Christo2555 on
Yes, after the recent inflation and the cost of living in London. The 40% bracket (really 50%) absolutely ridiculous at 50k.
ClassicFlavour on
I’d happily pay more taxes to get Germany’s version of Job Seekers allowance and some form of Universal Childcare.
DowntownTension8423 on
The issue isn’t the tax rate, it’s what we get for our taxes thats the issue
aleopardstail on
we are over taxed, the tax rates of other countries don’t matter, especially since they have different tax systems
we have a government that takes too much, wastes a huge chunk of it and then is forever demanding more instead of spending less
and yes I know a huge chunk of the money relates to the welfare state, yup, that’s a problem, but when the government is borrowing money and paying interest on it to then give that money aware is insanity
dmastra97 on
Tax feels worse because we pay much more in rent. After tax income usually gets 50% or more taken off for rent and bills. They have it better in other countries so higher taxes don’t impact them as badly as they do us.
SituationIcy5938 on
Now adjust for people on minimum wage, and millionaires/billionaires with offshore accounts.
DogSuicide on
Can I ask YOU a question? Or rather can you confirm the accuracy of a statement.
You’re mid-30s and have never earned more than 32k per year – correct?
Salty-Development203 on
I don’t think we’re overtaxed but I do think salaries have stagnated and that makes everything feel tight. Combined with cost of living crisis and it’s easy to see why people turn to blaming tax, even if imo it’s not the source of the problem
DerpDerpDerp78910 on
No more tax rises, the government (Tories really) can’t even process migrants and would rather spend that on housing, and can’t even build a train line in any reasonable time frame or budget.
The triple lock for pensioners is a complete joke. Whoever has to stop that will hang themselves politically.
Our doctors complain constantly about shit pay and working conditions but make so much money that they cap the lifetime allowance for pensions from their salaries.
This isn’t a money problem, it’s a corruption and greed problem with spineless politicians who want another term rather than fixing things.
Flip flopping on reforms recently are a good example. Even though I would agree going after the disabled and poor is never going to down well.
Bin the triple lock, invest in infrastructure but don’t let the people take the piss. Close all migrant hotels and process in a timely manner instead.
Put in prison the CEOs who paid out dividends while they took on debt and watched our rivers crumble with pollution without recourse.
Put someone else in charge and fix it. You don’t even have to make it public again (putting things on the government balance sheet isn’t the best), just create rules around how they need to be ran and remove and put in prison those who are corrupt while running them.
Invest heavily in tech and housing so we have the infrastructure here to build and be wealthy.
Stop outsourcing our services based economy to India, we’re being gutted of our worth.
There’s a perfect storm of shite that’s ruining our country. I don’t believe in managed decline. We, as a nation, are better than this.
Pikaea on
Comparing it to other countries is silly because the costs associated with living here. Highest energy prices in the OECD, and housing costs relative to income.
Other countries have lower incomes pay more tax as they dont have a personal allowance as high as we do. However, if you removed that then millions of people would struggle due to the above aforementioned costs.
CCFC1998 on
If you frame the question differently it becomes: The tax burden on working class people has increased drastically in recent decades, do taxpayers feel that public services have improved in line with these increases
Then I think the answer is a resounding ABSOLUTELY NOT
entropy_bucket on
One thing I’ve never understood in
tax is why we have slabs for tax rates i.e. 0 to 12k 0%, 12 -50k -20% etc.
With computerization, why not have a unique rate for every single penny of income. Make is a smooth exponential curve.
owowthatreallysucked on
I think we need to tax basic rate earners more. They make up 52% of the population but only contribute to 29% of all income tax generated. Going from 20-25 percent would make them go from 29 to around 40% of total income tax generated.
PatienceIsMore on
This is income tax only so a really one dimensional. Add in VAT, NI, Student loan tax, insurance premium, luxury car suppliment (tax), fuel duty, council tax, sugar tax and all th others then lets see where we place.
We need to pay tax for public services, but the value derived from that money seems poor.
StitchedSilver on
I mean aren’t we one of the most heavily taxed peoples in the world? Why is this even a story
BroodLord1962 on
Wow, now lets see all the liberal, lefty socialists having a melt down over this lol
HistoricalAnt8561 on
Now add rent to the chart, and watch the real poverty
PaddyIsBeast on
A lazy article, you can’t just compare tax rates like that without considering what you receive.
e.g. in Germany you can rely on your state pension without the need for a private pension, so to compare the UK to Germany you would need to include what people pay into their private pensions.
What about countries that pay for their students higher education? The UKs system effectively puts an additional 10% tax on workers who receive higher education.
csonakhaz on
all goes for pointless military spending, corruption and senseless social expenditures
26 Comments
Corporations are under-taxed and most of the tax money that has been taken since 2010 has been spent on bailing out banks and funding tax cuts and dodgy contracts for scumbag Tories and their friends, so it *feels* like we’re overtaxed as we’re not getting anything for it.
Besides, does this graph include council tax, national insurance, VAT, etc.?
For the last 45 years people have voted for a succession of low tax governments.
In the 80s and early 90s the government sold off our national assets (energy, water, strategic industries such as steel) and used that money to subsidise low taxes.
When there were no assets left, governments started to run an annual deficit and this happened most years throughout the late 90s, early 00s right up to the present day.
As a result the government now has almost £3 trillion of debt, which costs £100 billion per year in interest alone and the annual deficit is still in the region of £120 billion.
This means every year the total debt increases, as does the interest costs.
We, the taxpayer, are now spending around 8% of total annual government spending on debt interest alone. This is almost the same as the entire education budget and nearly double what we spend on defence.
The simple fact is, taxes are too low. Everyone needs to pay a bit more, going from the lowest earner to the richest billionaire.
… and still working people are needing to use foodbanks.
Perhaps it’s more complicated.
The thing we need to get across is we’re abnormal in that the lowest paid pay no tax. This is not a thing outside UK. We’re also abnormal in that our top 5% pay the highest tax % of any group. We’re also abnormal in that not paying a pence for a doctor appointment is odd, and no, the American system is not the only alternative.
If we grew up and followed European lead we would have so much more for it important infrastructure but we insist on a model that no other OECD country follows and are suprised by the poor results.
If any gov. Puts a universal tax increase, it would only go to some dodgy mates contract or a firm they are going to be a non ex director of after politics. The UK is deeply corrupt and the COVID scandals simply shone a brief torch on it. All of them as bad as each other. The only honest ones get absolutely sidelined. Heading back to Ragged Trouser territory at pace.
Would love to see the same graph for the richest in the country, then maybe they can shut up about being taxed more….and hopefully, we can then tax even more
Taxes are fair but the pound has no value, that’s the problem along with wages stagnating
Yes, after the recent inflation and the cost of living in London. The 40% bracket (really 50%) absolutely ridiculous at 50k.
I’d happily pay more taxes to get Germany’s version of Job Seekers allowance and some form of Universal Childcare.
The issue isn’t the tax rate, it’s what we get for our taxes thats the issue
we are over taxed, the tax rates of other countries don’t matter, especially since they have different tax systems
we have a government that takes too much, wastes a huge chunk of it and then is forever demanding more instead of spending less
and yes I know a huge chunk of the money relates to the welfare state, yup, that’s a problem, but when the government is borrowing money and paying interest on it to then give that money aware is insanity
Tax feels worse because we pay much more in rent. After tax income usually gets 50% or more taken off for rent and bills. They have it better in other countries so higher taxes don’t impact them as badly as they do us.
Now adjust for people on minimum wage, and millionaires/billionaires with offshore accounts.
Can I ask YOU a question? Or rather can you confirm the accuracy of a statement.
You’re mid-30s and have never earned more than 32k per year – correct?
I don’t think we’re overtaxed but I do think salaries have stagnated and that makes everything feel tight. Combined with cost of living crisis and it’s easy to see why people turn to blaming tax, even if imo it’s not the source of the problem
No more tax rises, the government (Tories really) can’t even process migrants and would rather spend that on housing, and can’t even build a train line in any reasonable time frame or budget.
The triple lock for pensioners is a complete joke. Whoever has to stop that will hang themselves politically.
Our doctors complain constantly about shit pay and working conditions but make so much money that they cap the lifetime allowance for pensions from their salaries.
This isn’t a money problem, it’s a corruption and greed problem with spineless politicians who want another term rather than fixing things.
Flip flopping on reforms recently are a good example. Even though I would agree going after the disabled and poor is never going to down well.
Bin the triple lock, invest in infrastructure but don’t let the people take the piss. Close all migrant hotels and process in a timely manner instead.
Put in prison the CEOs who paid out dividends while they took on debt and watched our rivers crumble with pollution without recourse.
Put someone else in charge and fix it. You don’t even have to make it public again (putting things on the government balance sheet isn’t the best), just create rules around how they need to be ran and remove and put in prison those who are corrupt while running them.
Invest heavily in tech and housing so we have the infrastructure here to build and be wealthy.
Stop outsourcing our services based economy to India, we’re being gutted of our worth.
There’s a perfect storm of shite that’s ruining our country. I don’t believe in managed decline. We, as a nation, are better than this.
Comparing it to other countries is silly because the costs associated with living here. Highest energy prices in the OECD, and housing costs relative to income.
Other countries have lower incomes pay more tax as they dont have a personal allowance as high as we do. However, if you removed that then millions of people would struggle due to the above aforementioned costs.
If you frame the question differently it becomes: The tax burden on working class people has increased drastically in recent decades, do taxpayers feel that public services have improved in line with these increases
Then I think the answer is a resounding ABSOLUTELY NOT
One thing I’ve never understood in
tax is why we have slabs for tax rates i.e. 0 to 12k 0%, 12 -50k -20% etc.
With computerization, why not have a unique rate for every single penny of income. Make is a smooth exponential curve.
I think we need to tax basic rate earners more. They make up 52% of the population but only contribute to 29% of all income tax generated. Going from 20-25 percent would make them go from 29 to around 40% of total income tax generated.
This is income tax only so a really one dimensional. Add in VAT, NI, Student loan tax, insurance premium, luxury car suppliment (tax), fuel duty, council tax, sugar tax and all th others then lets see where we place.
We need to pay tax for public services, but the value derived from that money seems poor.
I mean aren’t we one of the most heavily taxed peoples in the world? Why is this even a story
Wow, now lets see all the liberal, lefty socialists having a melt down over this lol
Now add rent to the chart, and watch the real poverty
A lazy article, you can’t just compare tax rates like that without considering what you receive.
e.g. in Germany you can rely on your state pension without the need for a private pension, so to compare the UK to Germany you would need to include what people pay into their private pensions.
What about countries that pay for their students higher education? The UKs system effectively puts an additional 10% tax on workers who receive higher education.
all goes for pointless military spending, corruption and senseless social expenditures