Girls in revealing clothes ‘asking for trouble’, say third of boys
https://www.thetimes.com/uk/scotland/article/girls-in-revealing-clothes-are-asking-for-trouble-say-schoolboys-s76mhgfxs
Posted by NefariousnessKey1851
Girls in revealing clothes ‘asking for trouble’, say third of boys
https://www.thetimes.com/uk/scotland/article/girls-in-revealing-clothes-are-asking-for-trouble-say-schoolboys-s76mhgfxs
Posted by NefariousnessKey1851
24 Comments
Girls who wear revealing clothing are “asking for trouble,” according to a third of secondary school boys in Scotland.
A survey of more than 13,000 pupils aged 11 to 18 has sparked calls for urgent action to address misogynistic attitudes among adolescents — with the results exposing a gulf between the perspectives of male and female teenagers.
The research was conducted by academics at the University of Glasgow at schools spread across Scotland.
It found 24 per cent of boys believed the term “sexual harassment” did not apply if their intention was to joke around. This compared with seven per cent of girls.
Half the boys who participated also agreed, or strongly agreed, that “overall, there are more things that boys are better at than girls”. This is despite 93 per cent believing both sexes would enjoy “equal opportunities” in their lives.
The five authors of the study said that as in the TV drama Adolescence, which explores the destructive impact of social media on teenage relationships, their findings should be discussed in classrooms.
“Most boys do not hold these negative views, but there is an urgent need to address the fact that a sizeable minority do,” they wrote in a letter to a British Medical Journal publication.
Kirstin Mitchell, professor of social sciences and public health at Glasgow University, worked on the study. She stressed that with 13,372 participants, it gave an indication of the “general culture” behind serious incidents of violence against women and girls.
She said 33 per cent of boys agreeing or strongly agreeing that skimpy outfits meant girls were asking for trouble was “particularly troubling”.
“That is the kind of attitude which is underlying when incidents of sexual harassment do happen,” she said. “These are the sort of norms that underpin victim blaming.”
The survey found 32 per cent of boys would judge a girl more than a boy for having sex with lots of people, while 12 per cent of girls shared this viewpoint.
“I feel this is sort of age-old sexual double standard,” said Mitchell. “It seems very entrenched.”
Asked whether they agreed with the statement “boys who behave like girls are weak”, 43 per cent of male participants said they did. In contrast, 13 per cent of girls shared this perspective.
Mitchell said: “This makes me feel quite sad because it almost suggests that boys are operating on this idea that girls are looking for strength and for, you know, boys to be strong and powerful and unemotional. And it’s not necessarily what girls are looking for.
“If they were able to show their emotions and show vulnerability, girls might find that more appealing than the sort of more macho behaviours.”
The survey was conducted to obtain a picture of the culture in 37 Scottish secondary schools which are participating in a programme called Equally Safe in Schools, run by Rape Crisis Scotland to tackle gender-based violence.
Mitchell and research fellow Carolyn Blake said their results were similar in all the schools visited, regardless of whether they were rich or poor, rural or urban.
Blake said: “I think some teachers have maybe expected the data to be worse than it is, and some have been a bit shocked that it is worse than they thought it would be. But we always reassure them that all schools have these issues and we don’t see huge variation between schools.”
The proportion of boys who did not believe they should realise girls were their equals was 17 per cent. Mitchell noted some pupils may have thought about physical strength when answering questions about young males outperforming their female counterparts. However, she added measures such as exam results tended to show girls were more successful.
The letter was published in The Journal of Epidemiology and Community Health.
I think there’s a fine line between “asking for trouble” and “being sensible”.
Yes, of course, in an ideal world people should be able to wear what they like without being harassed or attacked. However, we do not live in an ideal world. Murderers, rapists, harassers, abusers, and so on, exist.
Reducing these kinds of people in society and preventing these sorts of attacks is definitely something that we should continue to do. However, I think it’s important to tell everyone, not just women and girls, to exercise caution and use some common sense in certain situations.
If I’m in London, I’m not going to be flashing my phone and other expensive items, for example. Instead of walking through that dodgy area at night on my own, maybe I’ll take the long way round, things like that.
> “Most boys do not hold these negative views, but there is an urgent need to address the fact that a sizeable minority do”
Most boys not holding these negative views but treating all boys like they do anyway is very much part of the problem.
It almost becomes a self fulfilling prophecy, you keep telling the good kids how bad they are all you’re going to do is radicalise them into following figures like Tate.
I’d also say a guy flashing his Rolex in a rough part of town is asking for trouble
Doesn’t mean I think he deserves it when he gets mugged
Until we live in a crime free utopia we all make choices about how we keep ourselves safe. Making poor choices will make you less safe.
I was on a sexual harassment training course and one of the guys on the course said that “women shouldn’t dress in revealing clothes if they don’t want to be sexually harassed” the person leading the course said “well, no just because someone is dressed a certain way doesn’t give people the right to harass them”. So he guy then said “oh right I didn’t know that”.
Society in general seems to be regressing, views and behaviour that would have been more common in the 60’s and 70’s are picking up steam now.
As someone who grew up pre-internet, it seemed like the world was heading to a more open and accepting place, but it seems like social media has pushed things in the opposite direction somehow
If this was from a Muslim council saying girls should wear hijabs, this sub would be foaming at the mouth and calling it a symptom of a misogynistic culture.
Women know. Most of us first started getting harassed in school uniforms. We get harassed in jeans and t-shirts. So at some point you think ‘fuck it’ and wear what you want. But somehow boys aren’t ever accused of not being sensible when they walk around with shorts and no shirt on.
Whenever something about gender comes on this sub, I’m reminded of that Margaret Atwood quote – men are afraid of being made fun of, women are afraid of being killed.
But of course, what does Margaret Atwood know about feminism, compared to Random Man on Reddit?
E: Ahh, the responses for this sub are as sane as ever.
This is a project that gathers pictures of the clothes of what people were wearing when they were SAed. Notice it’s not revealing clothing.
If men want to attack, they’ll do it. Saying it’s because of a short skirt and that the women could have done anything about it is a lie.
https://sbaproject.org/what-were-you-wearing/
Does anyone have access the the data? Or more depth on the results- I’m wondering 2 things
1) What % of the girls said the same thing (I’ve come across more women critical of other women’s dress than I have men)
2) what are the age breakdowns? If 11 year old boys think ‘boys are better at everything’ but then grow out of it by the time they’re 16…I probably care less than if it’s the 18 year olds
They should be directed to the exhibition of clothes women and girls were wearing when raped.
The items range from nappies and baby grows to tracksuits, jeans and vest tops, with a whole lot of outfits in between.
What women wear is not the problem.
That men feel entitled to rape them is.
https://youtu.be/6hs9TgoTHzI?si=2Z7ES-MZiOIWx79Z
Edited to add link to said exhibition.
A third of boys need a slap round the ear from their mothers
Unpopular opinion, but if we locked up all males between 15 and 30 violent crime rates would drop to a minimum. The problem has always been young males.
If I recall correctly there was a study a few years ago to say the majority of rape victims were wearing jeans at the time of the assault.
Women in some countries are fully covered but those countries are also known to have high sexual assault rates. (Ironically, if those cultures’ men come to Britain, we grumble that their attitude to women is incompatible with ours while we say ‘women wearing revealing clothes are asking for trouble..” but I digress.)
There are also cultures where women daily go about their business full tits out and their men don’t find it that interesting as they see it every day.
Point is, the clothes don’t matter. Whether you are a rapist is what matters. Two thirds of boys don’t say that girls wearing revealing clothing are ‘asking for trouble’ so let’s focus on converting the attitudes of the third who do, rather than ragging on women to cover up when it won’t make a damn of difference to how safe or not they are.
Boys need to realise they have no right to abuse girls. Work on their self-control and respect.
I was 14 in my school uniform the first time I was raped by a grown man…
Call me a one off, but my own anecdotal evidence from the help groups I’ve been involved with, for sexual abuse victims specifically, not one other person was assaulted because they were wearing revealing clothing. Every single victim was a victim because of the perpetrators selfishness, deviousness and violence.
If you can’t control your behaviour, go lock yourself away until you can be around the rest of civilised society. Consuming violent sexual content from a young age ruined so many teens from my generation. Everyone seems to have forgotten the concerning data on young women having consensual sex, but it involving some form of violence.
I ended up in the adult entertainment industry, older men overwhelmingly were less violent. I coincidently wore way more revealing clothing than I ever have and was assaulted far less than when going day drinking at my local town! Just last month a guy was stroking my hair and my backside while me and my girlfriends were dancing.
Same day, a bloke tried holding onto me when clearly I was pushing him off from him slobbering all over my ear and neck.
There’s so much more I could say, but it’s just disheartening that people can’t exists because of male violence. Anyone can be a victim of it. But it’s so common for men to be aggressive that too many are ignoring that it’s the root problem. Entitled ‘alpha’ behaviour.
Children parroting the talking points they hear online from certain influencers.
I remember that exhibitions thing that showed what people were wearing when raped. Most were not something revealing
Looking through these comments it’s obvious to see where they get the mentality from.
I also find it hilarious that this same sub likes to harp on about immigrants being a danger to women, including the culture they apparently inflict on everyone, and yet men here are implying women dressing immodestly are “asking for it”.
It’s almost as if the problem has never been about immigration to begin with.
My best friend was sexually assaulted in winter wearing a turtleneck and jeans, and most women if they look back across the times they have been subject to abuse will likely say the same.
Do wonder about this sort of subject a lot- also how there’s no lesbian brothels and the stats of men in jail for sexual abuse. Just from a data perspective it’s clear there’s an issue
So many comments are just more versions of the original post in increasingly “clever” ways but all ultimately blame the woman for getting herself into trouble.
Clothing isn’t an issue and never was but has been used in court to shame victims and release offenders because you know Men can’t control themselves at all. That kind of thinking still prevails in schools and in Reddit by the looks of things. Think we can agree “trouble” means unwanted attention of Men from being harassed, stalked, through to sexual assault. Clothes doesn’t influence these things at all and it’s more driven by opportunity, perceived vulnerability or justified by this “everything is transactional” mindset of “I bought you dinner so now you need to”.
Bottom line if you treat a woman as a person and not an object to satisfy your needs or frail and constantly requiring your protection then clothes stop being an issue.
Good thing women never get assaulted or raped while wearing modest clothing! A woman in a hijab has never been raped. And children in onesies never get assaulted and raped because they were covered up. Good thing I and my female peers were never harassed from the age of 12 in baggy school jumpers and trousers!
I think it’s easier to blame the victim than to acknowledge how many of them and their peers have a troubling relationship with consent. Many think rape is just a stranger in an alleyway and would admit to being rapists if you used different language than the word “rape”.
And the men who aren’t like this have no idea of knowing which of their peers think like this unless the guy somehow comes out and says it in casual conversation.
I have been hearing this shit my whole life. Men, get your collective acts together and educate the younger generations. In the 21st century, it is neanderthal to still be exhibiting this behaviour!!
We get harassed whatever we wear. I’ve had disgusting things shouted at me and men following me whether I’ve been wearing a dress and heels or an old faded baggy tracksuit. We should be able to wear whatever we want