UK economy ‘bleeding out’ with brain drain in science and tech, peers warn
https://www.lbc.co.uk/article/48a41f4fab0e48788614a65831ea87f7-5HjdGMN_2/
Posted by insomnimax_99
UK economy ‘bleeding out’ with brain drain in science and tech, peers warn
https://www.lbc.co.uk/article/48a41f4fab0e48788614a65831ea87f7-5HjdGMN_2/
Posted by insomnimax_99
28 Comments
Crap wages. Huge student debt. No jobs. Absolute mystery!
It’s a pretty terrible economy when looking for something to be optimistic about. We sold off everything and we haven’t cornered any markets nor do we have the Labour power, manufacturing or pockets to do anything really. We are kind of just limping on praying the private market does something.
The UK economy has been devoured by finance. This story should be bigger.
Bleeding out ? You mean all the companies who used to produce in Britain have gone to China etc . That was a political choice and it can be reversed
We’ve moved just over 80% of our U.K. back office and an engineering team elsewhere in the last 12 months at their request with their families.
Most were originally from Western Europe and had been in the U.K. between 10 and 20 years prior to returning or moving to offices in the US.
Cost of living versus services provided and crime were the drivers for their departure.
So many STEM jobs in the UK are ridiculously undervalued. Can you blame our best engineers for moving abroad to earn literally 2-3x their UK salary?
Doing “science” and a lot of tech is about collaboration and lots of travel. Most top scientists, especially the younger ones, frequently move to work in other countries and regularly travel to other countries.
Young researchers also frequently move from country to country and the EU Erasmus program made that easy.
[https://erasmus-plus.ec.europa.eu/](https://erasmus-plus.ec.europa.eu/)
The UK leaving the EU has made all that a lot more difficult.
But it is the super rich the ones that need all the money, not the working class, lets give the super rich tax breaks and sell them more of the state,
China for example is pumping billions into science as we add millions in the past this didn’t matter as much because the UK was very innovative and still had an edge but our universities have been kept on a shoe string budget for decades now and been reliant on foreign students who we have taught well. These students now have returned to their home and are directing their own research using UK principles success is coming now and our advantage will be lost.
Plus China is now paying scientists high American level wages whilst the UK has had university wages on austerity level increases since 2008 (no massive gains like the NHS or other areas of public sector) Add to this UK bureaucracy in China if you think up a novel animal research experiment you can start later in the week in the UK expect 4 months to 2 years of ethical reviews and Home office animal licence applications
so expect this industry to collapse completely in the next 5-10 years, we love to make life impossible
I left UK in 2015 as I could just “smell” the mindset changing around Brexit, UKIP and so on. I doubled my salary in the USA straight away and within 6 years it was 5x. I think what has been happening in the UK since 2012 or so is like boiling the frog. You don’t see it when you are in it.
Moved to Dubai 5 years ago. I work in tech.
I was taking home ~£2300 per month in UK.
Now I’m taking home ~£7500 per month.
If a UK company can match that maybe I’ll move back. They probably won’t though as it’d be something crazy like £170k salary. I’m not a director or CEO so it’s unlikely.
Yeah we had that referendum, remember? Just over half the people who bothered to vote said fuckit let’s lose our European citizenship and shock doctrine the economy.
Now those idiots are saying fuckit that didn’t work let’s try violent nationalism and waving a flag that once had over a quarter of the world’s population under it to tell those people’s descendants they’re not welcome here.
Very high cost of living. Very high taxes. Shit services. Mounting political issues. And other countries are actively offering a better deal.
You can’t shit all over your best and brightest and then be surprised they don’t want to hang around
Add it to the other hundred ways we’re bleeding out
I’m self employed in a role I can do almost entirely remotely and I work almost exclusively for foreign clients, mostly in the USA.
They pay at least 50% more – sometimes double.
It’s completely crazy. UK work is ludicrously underpaid.
Pay in the UK is a massive issue. And what sucks the most here is that we have the local council and the go. Wanting to pinch a little more from our pocket, while cutting down on services.
Other countries pay more, and/or give better support.
Shit salaries attract shit people.
And salaries in the tech sector (outside of fintech) are shit.
The idea of working in the sciences being on a pedestal is the biggest lie we ever got told in school. Science in this country as a profession is awful. Not surprised people are leaving to other countries.
When you pay many STEM graduates pennies they don’t have much incentive to stay (and virtually none to come)
The Anti-intellectualism virus has infected Britain too. Way too many “we don’t need to hear from experts” or “My feelings matter more than facts” type talk.
UK salaries as a standalone are poor, there’s no question about that. However, I do find some country-for-country comparisons quite amusing, because often the countries that we compare ourselves to have a much higher cost of living, so comparing salaries feels a bit pointless, as your disposable income after everything is paid for isn’t going to be substantially different. The sweet spot, I suppose, is working remotely for a firm abroad that pays a better salary than what you could expect over here.
I’ll never pay much attention to people that brag about the salaries that they’re getting over in the UAE, Qatar and so on. If you’re not fussed about abhorrent modern slave labour, and all you care about is your own income, then that’s good for you I suppose!
Mates who graduated and went into jobs with Geology MASTERS degrees were earning less than me in a call center with zero experience and were paid worse than my first 5 years. (I had a Bsc 2:2)
They had masters degrees. Graduates are exploited for cheap labor because they’re “learning”. They both now have better jobs and are earning more but who would go do a degree when for the first 5 years I can earn more in a frickin call center!
Not an economist but in my opinion the 40% tax bracket is an absolute killer. Way too many people who aren’t rich having to give up way too much of their salaries in these roles.
That tracks. Academic careers in the sciences here are at first prohibitively expensive for most, and later, ridiculously underpaid.
Partner was offered something like £30k for a postdoctoral position in life sciences at a “reputable” university in the UK, but turned it down for the same job for about 3x the salary in mainland Europe.
As someone also in science academia, I’d love to come back to the UK to be closer to loved ones, but the financial implications make it completely untenable. It’s a sorry state of affairs.
I work in STEM. Biotech specifically, so I can not speak for tech. I have tried and failed on multiple occasions to move abroad for work to Germany and Switzerland. Anecdotally, I only know 3 people who have moved abroad. One to the US, and two to Germany. In academia, people move a lot for postgrads and PhDs. Two of these people are academia, one is industry. Their quality of life seems to be a lot better than mine. Germany for work-life balance, US for compensation. Academia necessitates moving around and pays poorly. Industry in the uk is more developed with the golden triangle (Oxford, Cambridge, London), but these are very expensive places to live, and pay does not reflect this. Senior scientists can be paid under £50k which is a similar salary to a fresh graduate at a consulting firm. I like the field, but I am realistic.
I’d like to move abroad but can’t. I’m young, and if I can’t find a job paying me enough to live alone in the uk, I see no reason not to transition to a tertiary industry like consulting where I could double or triple my pay in 5 years time. US pharma companies know they can pay shit wages because everyone else does here. For my first job in cancer research, I was earning 29k. The same as my mate who drove Tesco delivery lorries and slightly more than my mate who banged in fence posts. There is no incentive to be a scientist unless you love the work and want to be an eternal student or have parents who can afford to support you as you work a series of poorly paid jobs or academia positions.
Of only they made higher education free…. Like it used to be before billionaires personal profit was more important than the countries progress.
Vote green.
Well thanks to destroying the middle class out of greed, we now have way too many people struggling and not able to study because they have to work. Also a lot of science jobs are bad pay, so there’s little incentive there. I have a lot of qualifications in science, specifically biology but I don’t see any entry level jobs, and I am trying to juggle having a family as well so I had to pivot to a different career
Made the decision to leave due to a company opening in the US and have to say while i was a bit apprehensive at first life is just so much better here than in the UK, i don’t think people fully grasp just how big the difference in wages and disposable income is now for STEM, i mean really any professional field outside finance. I mean honestly the quality of life here is just so much better, all countries have their problems and i’m aware of “grass is always greener” but honestly, sometimes the grass is just greener.
A lot of colleagues and friends are looking to move away, it’s insane. Surely well paid professionals who pay income tax are the cornerstone of an economy? Like this is why other countries are so keen to snap them up, the UK just passively letting a brain drain start to happen is just crazy to me.