> The wording of the document, seen by the Guardian, has alarmed some religious groups, with Jewish and Muslim leaders defending the cultural importance of the practice.
Too fucking bad. A boy’s right to bodily autonomy trumps whatever your magical space ghost or its book of fairy tales say.
No-Assumption-1738 on
Make it only legal where there is a medical necessity, people can pay to have it done electively at adulthood if need be.
Historical_Cobbler on
Non medical circumcision is 100% child abuse and barbaric.
Religions have always modernised with times, holding on to a medieval practice is disgraceful and this is far too slow in happening.
PetersMapProject on
Culture and religion are not more important than child’s lives.
There are no other circumstances in which we’d let an untrained person chop off part of a child’s body without anaesthetic, for no medical reason.
The children can have it done when they’re able to consent. I say 18 not 16 because it’s a lot easier for parents to put a 16yo under intolerable pressure, at an age when leaving home is almost impossible.
Someone in the article likened it to ear piercing – I also think it shouldn’t be done until the child is old enough to consent, but as it’s fundamentally reversible in a way circumcision isn’t, the age could be much lower – 8, perhaps.
South_Buy_3175 on
This’ll go down well with a couple religious groups.
Ban it for children entirely, except when it’s medically necessary.
It *is* child abuse, no matter what your special book says, there’s literally no reason to mutilate your child and anyone in support of it is a sicko and needs putting on a list.
DeadAnarchistPhil on
Unless it’s being done for medical reasons, then it isn’t needed and will result in pain, possible infection and even death. So yeh, it’s abuse for religion’s sake.
buginarugsnug on
Good. Unless there is a medical reason (e.g phismosis where other treatments failed) it should be a decision made in adulthood. It’s a form of genital mutilation and no religious dogma can trump the fact that it is barbaric and wrong.
thereidenator on
In America it’s still legal for a rabbi to clean the wound with their mouth after. I wish I was joking.
ddmf on
I’m all for this, we shouldn’t be mutilating children without their consent and babies definitely can’t consent.
The_Final_Barse on
See /r/intactivism if you were ever in any doubt that it’s abuse.
Practical-Purchase-9 on
Iceland’s government tried to ban circumcision and folded mainly to to allow for religious reasons. Of course the main reasons for cosmetic procedures are religious, and you know which religions.
This will fail to go anywhere, especially under Labour that need Muslim votes and can’t stand up to any accusation of anti-semitism no matter how spurious.
It would be great if they put an end to it but the government is too spineless.
Reverend_Vader on
I had to have one at 30 for medical issues, I had the skin of dirk digger, but not so much on the inside, so it had to come off
I see the difference and the scars, don’t bother me or any woman I’ve ever been with, I’m the unicorn of outcomes as it became 3x more sensitive (normally the opposite)
However, when I think about doing this on an unknowing child, it’s “open net” levels of child abuse
It should be illegal and there should not even be a debate or any pandering to organised abuser groups like religion
Slicing off parts of a child’s body should only ever be done when a doctor says “this is medically necessary” and I bet that would be about 0.01% of boys
ArissP on
It should be treated the same as FGM, in that, even if you travel abroad for the procedure, it is still illegal.
Circumcising robs men from experiencing sexual gratification the way our bodies are designed to experience it.
Youbunchoftwats on
Good, because it is. Leave other people’s dicks alone.
concretepigeon on
> there is not a specific criminal offence of carrying out male circumcision”.
> However, this can be a painful and harmful practice, if carried out incorrectly or in inappropriate circumstances
So they’re not banning it but at least expecting it to be done by someone with actual skill. I found out from another story recently that literally anyone can legally be a circumciser which regardless of your opinion on the practice itself is absolute madness.
Livelih00d on
It is, but it never will be banned because we’ve built a legal system that allows for “religious exemption”. And because it’s a religious practice and that’s the only people really doing it in this country, it will continue to happen just behind closed doors with worse outcomes because it’ll be done without doctors.
SmashedWorm64 on
I don’t think non-medical circumcision should be legal on anyone who isn’t an adult and can’t make their own decision.
I respect religions, but the worse the Christians do is dunk your head in water. If you decide later on in life that you don’t agree with it then there is no harm done. If you are missing your foreskin however… well fuck.
erbr on
You can down vote me as much as you want but any kind of mutilation, marking or perforation (for the people that like to put earrings on babies) should be considered a crime as those are barbaric customs that completely remove the idea of freewill to a new being.
For parents, educators and everyone out there. Babies/children (acrual people) are not a possession and your role is to educate them for the fair, honest, balanced and happy society. From that any physical change, with any reasoning other than healthcare, must not happen.
plawwell on
In what world is mutilating a baby even “possible child abuse”? This is pure up disfigurement, torture and a sadistic practice by repeat offenders.
InsecureInscapist on
Good, religious fanaticism and cultural tradition has no right to supercede a person’s body autonomy no matter the reason.
Fundamentalists from any faith must be made to accept that, whether they get their funding from Saudi Arabia or South Carolina.
Bloody-smashing on
My family are Muslims. I grew up Muslim but no longer believe and his and is white.
When I was pregnant with my boy I was dreading the circumcision conversation. Well we just didn’t do it. Family had an issue with it but my boy is 2 now and they’re over it.
I genuinely think it’s cruel. Why would you subject a newborn baby to that it’s awful.
Psychological-Plum10 on
I would say ban all non medical procedures until 18 years old with informed consent. (including piercing babys ears.)
ash_ninetyone on
Circumcision should only be done for medical reasons.
Even then, in cases of things like phimosis (tight foreskin) it is a treatment of last resort. Doctors will try to use steroidal creams and stretching exercises to loosen and stretch the skin so it retracts properly.
djwillis1121 on
It’s just such a bizarre thing all around. What series of events led to religious people chopping off their baby’s foreskin of all things? I just don’t understand how that even happens
24 Comments
> The wording of the document, seen by the Guardian, has alarmed some religious groups, with Jewish and Muslim leaders defending the cultural importance of the practice.
Too fucking bad. A boy’s right to bodily autonomy trumps whatever your magical space ghost or its book of fairy tales say.
Make it only legal where there is a medical necessity, people can pay to have it done electively at adulthood if need be.
Non medical circumcision is 100% child abuse and barbaric.
Religions have always modernised with times, holding on to a medieval practice is disgraceful and this is far too slow in happening.
Culture and religion are not more important than child’s lives.
There are no other circumstances in which we’d let an untrained person chop off part of a child’s body without anaesthetic, for no medical reason.
The children can have it done when they’re able to consent. I say 18 not 16 because it’s a lot easier for parents to put a 16yo under intolerable pressure, at an age when leaving home is almost impossible.
Someone in the article likened it to ear piercing – I also think it shouldn’t be done until the child is old enough to consent, but as it’s fundamentally reversible in a way circumcision isn’t, the age could be much lower – 8, perhaps.
This’ll go down well with a couple religious groups.
Ban it for children entirely, except when it’s medically necessary.
It *is* child abuse, no matter what your special book says, there’s literally no reason to mutilate your child and anyone in support of it is a sicko and needs putting on a list.
Unless it’s being done for medical reasons, then it isn’t needed and will result in pain, possible infection and even death. So yeh, it’s abuse for religion’s sake.
Good. Unless there is a medical reason (e.g phismosis where other treatments failed) it should be a decision made in adulthood. It’s a form of genital mutilation and no religious dogma can trump the fact that it is barbaric and wrong.
In America it’s still legal for a rabbi to clean the wound with their mouth after. I wish I was joking.
I’m all for this, we shouldn’t be mutilating children without their consent and babies definitely can’t consent.
See /r/intactivism if you were ever in any doubt that it’s abuse.
Iceland’s government tried to ban circumcision and folded mainly to to allow for religious reasons. Of course the main reasons for cosmetic procedures are religious, and you know which religions.
This will fail to go anywhere, especially under Labour that need Muslim votes and can’t stand up to any accusation of anti-semitism no matter how spurious.
It would be great if they put an end to it but the government is too spineless.
I had to have one at 30 for medical issues, I had the skin of dirk digger, but not so much on the inside, so it had to come off
I see the difference and the scars, don’t bother me or any woman I’ve ever been with, I’m the unicorn of outcomes as it became 3x more sensitive (normally the opposite)
However, when I think about doing this on an unknowing child, it’s “open net” levels of child abuse
It should be illegal and there should not even be a debate or any pandering to organised abuser groups like religion
Slicing off parts of a child’s body should only ever be done when a doctor says “this is medically necessary” and I bet that would be about 0.01% of boys
It should be treated the same as FGM, in that, even if you travel abroad for the procedure, it is still illegal.
Circumcising robs men from experiencing sexual gratification the way our bodies are designed to experience it.
Good, because it is. Leave other people’s dicks alone.
> there is not a specific criminal offence of carrying out male circumcision”.
> However, this can be a painful and harmful practice, if carried out incorrectly or in inappropriate circumstances
So they’re not banning it but at least expecting it to be done by someone with actual skill. I found out from another story recently that literally anyone can legally be a circumciser which regardless of your opinion on the practice itself is absolute madness.
It is, but it never will be banned because we’ve built a legal system that allows for “religious exemption”. And because it’s a religious practice and that’s the only people really doing it in this country, it will continue to happen just behind closed doors with worse outcomes because it’ll be done without doctors.
I don’t think non-medical circumcision should be legal on anyone who isn’t an adult and can’t make their own decision.
I respect religions, but the worse the Christians do is dunk your head in water. If you decide later on in life that you don’t agree with it then there is no harm done. If you are missing your foreskin however… well fuck.
You can down vote me as much as you want but any kind of mutilation, marking or perforation (for the people that like to put earrings on babies) should be considered a crime as those are barbaric customs that completely remove the idea of freewill to a new being.
For parents, educators and everyone out there. Babies/children (acrual people) are not a possession and your role is to educate them for the fair, honest, balanced and happy society. From that any physical change, with any reasoning other than healthcare, must not happen.
In what world is mutilating a baby even “possible child abuse”? This is pure up disfigurement, torture and a sadistic practice by repeat offenders.
Good, religious fanaticism and cultural tradition has no right to supercede a person’s body autonomy no matter the reason.
Fundamentalists from any faith must be made to accept that, whether they get their funding from Saudi Arabia or South Carolina.
My family are Muslims. I grew up Muslim but no longer believe and his and is white.
When I was pregnant with my boy I was dreading the circumcision conversation. Well we just didn’t do it. Family had an issue with it but my boy is 2 now and they’re over it.
I genuinely think it’s cruel. Why would you subject a newborn baby to that it’s awful.
I would say ban all non medical procedures until 18 years old with informed consent. (including piercing babys ears.)
Circumcision should only be done for medical reasons.
Even then, in cases of things like phimosis (tight foreskin) it is a treatment of last resort. Doctors will try to use steroidal creams and stretching exercises to loosen and stretch the skin so it retracts properly.
It’s just such a bizarre thing all around. What series of events led to religious people chopping off their baby’s foreskin of all things? I just don’t understand how that even happens