Context: M 35, law obedient, speaking Dutch (C1 certified, C2 in process) living in small village in Vlaams-Brabant.
It’s 3rd time that I ever came in contact with a Police officer, and the first time that I was allegedly at fault for a minor infraction. Today Police officer knocked at the window of my living room (apparently, looking inside my house is a better way of handling that interaction than just knocking on my door or god forbid using a bell). I come out, and I’m greeted with
– "Are you:
– Yes, how can I help you officer?
– Your motorcycle is parked on sidewalk, this is illegal.
– I’ll be happy to move it, but would you mind explaining to me how it is illegal, so I better know for a future? In the driving school I was told that it can be parked like that. I’m also trying to buy a garage in the village, as people seem to have a problem with it being parked on the street too.
– Is it a vehicle?
– Yes
– So it can’t be parked on the sidewalk
– Alright, but can I ask a question because I must have misunderstood something…
– If you want to ask something, you will receive PV for parking there
– I understand, can I ask the question
– No you can not, I told you to move it, after which he just went away. (I’m surprised he didn’t decided to tow it)
Obviously I will receive the PV via mail and will follow the procedure to get it dropped, reddit is not a place for legal advice, but for the people that are curious as to what alleged crime I have committed. I’ve parked my motorcycle in accordance with
Article 23.4. Motorcycles are allowed outside the roadway and the designated parking lanes article 75.2 be installed without hindering or making unsafe the traffic of other road users.
It was 6,5 meters to the closest gate, next to 3.5 meter wide street that is a one way road, at the edge of a sidewalk, leaving over 2 meters space for the pedestrians passing there (while not a single part of the motorcycle was extending on the street, because it was about 30 cm from the edge of the road). The sidewalk there is so spacious that you can fit a van there (I know because there was one parked there when I came to take pictures for my evidence). It was truly not bothering anyone, I’ve been asked multiple times by different people living in that street to move it. Every time someone said something, I complied. "My wife has trouble driving out of the garage, she can’t drive for shit I don’t want her to hit your bike" – I moved it up the street. "I know that legally you can park here, I ride too, and hate to ask it, but I’m self-employed and I often use this part of the sidewalk to load and unload packages for my business" – I moved it. Every time with the same smile on my face and the same answer, no problem, I don’t want to complicate stuff with my neighbors.
I only started parking it there after a lady asked me not to park it on the street, because she lives there for the last 20 years, and gets annoyed when she needs to search for the spot. I truly don’t want to complicate stuff for my neighbors.
I will not go too deep in the nuances of the law, long story short Wegcode 2027 makes it even clearer next year:
§ 5. Motorcycles with a maximum width of 1 m may be parked on a sidewalk or verge to be used by pedestrians, provided that a passable strip of at least 1.50 m wide is left on this sidewalk or verge.
According to my lawyer it will be dropped at the formal appeal, as I have all the evidence including pictures with the tape measure for the reference and this topic had been debated on multiple occasions and current ministerial guidelines are clear.
What grinds my gears is the actual way Police is handling this type of conversations, it’s not the first time, when a simple inquiry about the legal aspect of something (which this time I wasn’t even allowed to ask) pushed a cop towards escalating a conversation. He became clearly agitated as if I was searching for conflict. Why is a simple: "Excuse me sir, but for the sake of clarity, may I ask what specific law I am currently violating?". Treated as some kind of a challenge to authority, when I just want to learn to do better. It is especially annoying that last time I spoke to Police, their combi passed me on the road 30 centimeters from my handlebar (I was cycling on the right side of the road outside of a buildup area), and stopped when I waved my open hand in a gesture of disbelief. Another officer who also did not introduced himself, first told me to be careful, because people may take waving hand (open palm pointed upwards) as a gesture of aggression (in what clown world). And then he was trying to gaslight me into believing that there is no legal limit for passing cyclists outside of buildup area. Although kudos to him, because he changed his tune when I showed him a traffic fine I’ve received for speeding at back of which there was that rule written as a reminder (you remember when they added those info brochures to the tickets, because pepperidge remembers). It seems like real criminals can count on better treatment than a law obedient citizen. Do we really need to be like those American Karens who turn on their cameras on, the moment Police talks to them?
Why are Police interactions in Belgium so miserable
byu/Mental-Candy-9587 inbelgium
Posted by Mental-Candy-9587
26 Comments
[https://www.veiligverkeer.be/weggebruikers/motors/parkeerregels/](https://www.veiligverkeer.be/weggebruikers/motors/parkeerregels/)
I swear belgian police is always actively escalating simple situations. They are always so condesending to citizens
The general rule everywhere is that law exists only to protect the rich. So make believe you’re rich and you should be fine.
>What grinds my gears is the actual way Police is handling this type of conversations, it’s not the first time, when a simple inquiry about the legal aspect of something (which this time I wasn’t even allowed to ask) pushed a cop towards escalating a conversation. He became clearly agitated as if I was searching for conflict. Why is a simple: “Excuseert u mij meneer, zou ik voor de duidelijkheid mogen vragen welke specifieke wet ik momenteel overtreden zou hebben?”. Treated as some kind of a challenge to authority, when I just want to learn to do bette
Because in the entire world, there is a certain personality that wants to be a police officer. The profession draws them and desires them.
I know some kind, clever, and motivated people that joined the police, and **a lot** of illiterate schoolyard bullies and horsegirls that joined the police. Since policework involves a lot of paperwork and the normal cops can’t stand *those* ones either, they get sent outside to do stuff. And stuff, they do.
Edit: the funniest thing you can do here is try to get in touch with someone competent (try to bypass the person at the reception because *GOD DAMN*) at the local police office to *enquire about the rules* meaning one of his more competent colleagues will be forced to explain you’re absolutely right and that sometimes you have to ignore what the police says.
I have mot interacred with a cop in decades.
Except for the wijk agent who checked if i lived at my new adress. He is a pretty chill guy.
probably some bitch neighbor who called the pigs on him
I do confirm that unless your motorbike is one of those limited to 45km/h, it must not be parked on the sidewalk. If it is, then it must. Because the law is weird like that.
Motorbikes have the exceptional possibility to be parked perpendicularly to the road. This is not the case of any other vehicles.
On the topic of cops, I’ve encountered good cops and bad cops.
The best cop I’ve ever met accompanied me cycling to see what sorts of issues I had on the road, and gave chase to a guy who somehow dared shoving me out of the road despite just passing a cop.
The worst cop I’ve ever met wanted to give me a fine for eating a cup of pasta in the street using a metal fork.
I am from *that* minority group in Belgium, and I can tell you there are two police attitudes: one when you don’t master the language and don’t look well-established (young, hesitant, low-confidence me) and another when you do master the language (in my case, I eat them up in French), are highly educated, and come across as threatening (in a legal way) .. blue shirt, high-end car. They respect you when you are respectful, assertive, and well in place. They escalate when they think they can get away with their attitude (the “poor immigrant” archetype). Police in Belgium is really the caricature-like maintainers of the social order .. treat them like NPC’s and limit interactions with them as much as you can until you are .. better established.
Feels like onion layers.
While polarity might be different.
Looks like they weren’t able to find anyone but bullies, which are idiots by default.
This is for the road rage initiated by them.
For parking, make sure you not making loud noise and idling for too long. Reviving is no go
They came because someone complained on you.
BTW, I live near Wallonia. Walloons are parking in Flanders directly on sidewalks.
I haven’t seen motorcycles on sidewalks in Flanders, but bicycles, scooters leaned to the dwellings walls.
American Karens have cousins in Belgium for sure…
A cop here once made me walk home in pouring rain because he didn’t like my clip-on rear bicycle light. He followed me the entire way, in his car, to make sure I didn’t get on my bike. >.<
By contrast in Canada I was approached by a cop once who thought I looked lost and needed help, then just had a friendly chat with me for a few minutes when I told him I wasn’t/didn’t.
Are you otherly colored than pasty white with European eyes?
Some officers are just there to look for beef. But there are genuinely nice ones, too. Most of my interactions with the Walloon police has been pretty positive. I do feel like Flemish police comes across a lot more aggressive, though.
Always keep records of police interactions.
Always.
>- I’ll be happy to move it, but would you mind explaining to me how it is illegal, so I better know for a future? In the driving school I was told that it can be parked like that. I’m also trying to buy a garage in the village, as people seem to have a problem with it being parked on the street too.
>What grinds my gears is the actual way Police is handling this type of conversations, it’s not the first time, when a simple inquiry about the legal aspect of something (which this time I wasn’t even allowed to ask) pushed a cop towards escalating a conversation. He became clearly agitated as if I was searching for conflict.
between your accent and your language, maybe the cop thought you are trying to argue?
> when I waved my open hand in a gesture of disbelief
Yeah. Don’t do that to a cop. Because if you’re doing a lot of that they will think you are getting agitated / aggressive. If you look at road rage videos, if step 2 in an argument is waving and gesticulating, step 3 can be physcial.
Honestly depends per City, had bad experience in Aalst and Halle, good experience in Bruges, Mechelen and Liège.
It’s sad; but a certain type of person is drawn to this type of petty authority.
I would say they deserve compassion, more than derision, if they weren’t so insufferable.
We do not always send our best…
Why are you taking this to Reddit? Just write your complain and send it to Comite-P or file your complain at the police station where the police person works.
Personally I think this is a very weird conversation, you had with him. What caused him to be so rude? He even did not say ‘omda Kik da zeg’.
Had some terrible interactions with police when I lived in the city. Only nice ones after moving to a more suburb area. The amount of verbal abuse cops have to endure could be a factor.
Mine have been very pleasant. I have yet to meet a power hungry officer in Belgium. But I know they’re out there.
bah moi il m’est arrivé à De panne, un miracle avec de civil, (de civiel?)ma voiture avec une plaque française ne voulait plus démarrer, (problème de démarreur) la voiture était réglementairement stationné, j’ai demandé, s’ils pouvaient me poussait et 3 armoire a glace sont sortis et l’on fait
bon a l’arrière j’avais un sticker “Ik ben Vlaming en fier op”
je leur avais dit bonne nuit en néerlandais, avant de demander qu’il me pousse
une fois la voiture démarré, ils mont gratifiés d’un
“Ge zijt een goeie hast”
Ja, ik zou ook niet graag omgaan met mensen zoals jij. Begrijpelijk van die agent.
Try eastern EU police and you’ll find that belgium police, on average, are nice as fuck 🥲
Each time with the police they were calm and friendly