Almost no evidence that employing physician associates in NHS is safe, say Oxford researchers

I got misdiagnosed by one. She absolutely would not listen to me talk about a condition I’ve had for over 20 years and as such know a lot about it. But no wouldn’t entertain the fact she might be wrong.

Prescribed something that would make it a whole lot worse. Absolute farce.

I hope that this can reach the public consciousness in a meaningful way.

PAs are being expanded by government despite the lack of evidence as a cost saving measure. This is the same reason doctor roles are being substituted with non-doctors in the form of (slightly) upskilled nurses and other health professionals within GP practices and hospitals while many doctors struggle to maintain employment.

The public need to take a stand on this, and Ask For A Doctor if they want to be diagnosed or prescribed medication Nothing else will send a clear enough message.

Lack of research is an issue, but the truth is they are supposed to be watched over by qualified people anyway, and have limits like being unable to give drugs. The issue isn’t the roles existence, it’s the role creep everyone in the nhs is experiencing and it’s dangerous. Health care assistants went on strike over this recently too.

BBC News – NHS healthcare assistants strike over fair pay
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cv22vj42v33o

They got a higher banding because they couldn’t remove the clinical stuff. This is happening at every single level. The issue with this is not enough fully qualified people. It’s not cost saving, it’s a result of years of not training people.

People are just being misinformed about PAs, they’re not meant to substitute doctors but rather be a supplement to them. The scope of a PA’s role is to work under the supervision of a doctor NOT replace them… This is meant to make the whole patient experience better as it reduces waiting time, allows them to talk about their problems to a clinically trained professional and removes friction between the NHS and the people they’re meant to serve.

All this hate towards is being misdirected. The real problem is their employers (the NHS), who has allowed such problems to arise despite constant backlash. If they treated their employees better with improved working conditions, higher pay and more manageable hours, there would be less doctors heading to the US or Australia. But no, the NHS would rather pay the executives more and implement cost-saving measures, which increases the pressure onto the NHS.

To reiterate my point, PAs takes the pressure off the NHS, and should NOT be viewed as a replacement to doctors but a supplement to them.

Turns out employing unqualified quacks doesn’t help patients. Who knew?

Im against PAs but I think this headline is a bit misleading. There’s going to be “no evidence” of PAs being safe because it’s something that’s happened fairly recently, so researchers haven’t had the time to do a large number of studies on how safe it is. If the newspaper wanted to push a different narrative the headline could just as easily be: “No evidence PAs are unsafe, say experts”

It’s a sensationalist headline. The report is highlighting that there is very little research into PA outcomes and what there is , is of poor quality. It is saying more research is needed.

Or, in other words; “some evidence PA’ are safe, no evidence they’re unsafe”.

Seriously, this title is awful.

oh is this still policy, I thought we would have moved on to prescription via large language model by now

They need to go. I would rather wait longer to be seen by a doctor. I knew more about the condition I’ve had since birth than they did and they could do nothing to help me yet would not refer me. Waste of time for both parties – and money for the taxpayer.

They’re just such a useless halfway house, if they were simply on a different slower route to a medical degree and full qualification I would understand that and potentially see the value. How you train a Doctor is at times barely sustainable and not attractive to many, and a more vocational pathway that runs the spectrum up from Nursing to a practitioner to an actual Doctor I could see working.

That’s not the current system and there’s just really no seeming utility to a PA other than costing less money and not contaminating Nurses and Doctors with the issues of their errors.

Patients in teaching hospitals are routinely treated by doctors in training passing through specialities on 6 month rotations or by newly qualified doctors and students.A physician associate wouldn’t need to be in a given speciality long to have more experience in that speciality than the rotating doctors.There are standard treatments and diagnostic pathways for most things and it’s crazy to think that everything needs a consultant or a fully qualified GP.In my profession it’s the same as saying the Finance director needs to sign off every invoice, run the payroll and do the vat return.They are responsible but they recruit and manage staff who do the detail.

As a first year medical student, I am sorry but there is no fucking way you can get 5 years of training done in 2 years. Not even close.

I should never be let anywhere close to diagnosing or treating a patient, and I still won’t be competent enough to treat or diagnose a patient in only 2 years. The best I can do is take a history, and probably not a very good one (depends on what it is).

Hell even with my own experience as a patient and with my hospital tutor, doctors still have plenty of knowledge gaps themselves. What is disgusting is that I know some other people who are in my classes who have PAs as a hospital tutor.

Who knew a 2 year degree does not equate to 5+ years of medical school where you have to pass rigorous exams that continue after graduation?

I mean it’s just health and lives these people are looking after. /s

American here. It’s a scam, don’t allow it. Once they go mainstream the mission creep is fast and furious.

See r/noctor

For anyone who hasn’t read the article, it doesn’t say physician associates are bad, just that their effectiveness has barely been studied:

>There is little evidence that employing physician associates (PAs) in the NHS is safe or that they improve patient care, a review from Oxford University has found.

>Despite over 3,500 PAs and anaesthetic associates (AAs) currently employed within the health service, researchers found a significant gap in studies examining their roles.