Toby Carvery owners admit felling beloved 500-year-old oak tree in London after local outrage
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/whitewebbs-woods-tree-enfield-sycamore-gap-b2733473.html
Posted by GeoWa
Toby Carvery owners admit felling beloved 500-year-old oak tree in London after local outrage
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/whitewebbs-woods-tree-enfield-sycamore-gap-b2733473.html
Posted by GeoWa
29 Comments
If the arboriculturist said this tree was dead then it should be pretty easy to prove. If not they need to be prosecuted
What the actual fuck. What are the odds that the fine will be so small that it won’t even make a dent in profits?
There needs to a national review of fines make sure they’ve at least gone up with inflation, make sure stuff like this gets punished properly so that there’s an actual deterrent.
Plus for stuff like this make sure everyone one involved gets fined – businesses and the individuals (no hiding behind “I was obeying orders”).
Honestly this gets me so fkn angry. 500 years old and they do that and then tell everyone they did them a favour. Criminal prosecution to the person who sanctioned this and a massive fine should be the punishment but we all know the bare minimum will be dished out.
I currently work for M&B (leaving next week, thank god), and citing health and safety is pretty much a guarantee for getting a work order approved. The punishment will be so minor that it makes no difference to them as a company. We were told as a brand that we were £1m short of our targets, which led to labour cuts across the board, spend for non food and drink got slashed and we were told that none of us were doing enough. Our brand alone finished the year £176m in profit (financial year Sep 23- Sep24)
> The Toby Carvery spokesperson said: “The tree was cut back after we were advised that it caused a serious health and safety risk, and so this was an essential action to protect our employees and guests to which we have a duty of care.
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> “We took every necessary measure to ensure all legal requirements were met […] We are grateful to our expert contractors for warning us of this hazard so swiftly, allowing us to act before anyone was harmed.”
From that it looks like they were advised to do it by their contractors. Presumably they assumed that the contractors knew what they were doing and followed their advise.
This is a good reminder that even though you use professionals, you’re still liable if it goes wrong or there advice is wrong. It’s a similar situation some of the tax issues, you take professional advice but it’s you liable if you’re investigated.
Absolutely fuck them and their car park. This is the worst pointless destruction. I hope their business fails.
Could we maybe hack down the twollop who put out the awful self righteous press statement for the carvery.
Unfortunately “stands on my way to profit even more” is a genuine reason today
Does it not have a tpo on it?
I’ve got 2 trees in my front garden not even in the same league as this one that both have TPOs.
As for the woodland trust. If it is on their register why havnt they applied for one…?
They manage to completely destroy a carvery so they might aswell destroy the wildlife. Worst food ever. How can a place that only really sells carvery, make everything inedible and stay open? Can’t even do gravy ffs. Could use the peas as ammo for air rifles, mash is wank, how do you even mess up mash?? Fuck Toby!
Local news outlet link who broke the news for boosting: https://enfielddispatch.co.uk/toby-carvery-admits-felling-ancient-whitewebbs-oak-tree/
This might be me wearing a tin foil hat, but Mitchell & Butler who own Toby Carvery have a key investor in Joe Lewis. He’s also the owner of Tottenham Hotspur who are in contention with the local public over a different area of the Whitewebbs park that the football club want to turn into an extension of their existing training ground.
I’m gonna be sus until proven otherwise.
I like how everyone is angry including the council. Yet drive up and down the highways and you’ll see the councils destroying trees left right and centre.
Literally around here they’ve cleared trees 5m back from the roads. Decimated hedgerows and destroyed nesting trees. All for the sake of if a tree blows over it doesn’t end up in a road
This is why we can’t have nice things. This makes me sad.
Fucking stupid public servants and their health and safety bullshit
If im the government, im forcibly merging M&B with Greene King, cause that seems like a good consolidatioon that I would be pushing for if I worked for Greene King.
It isn’t in a conservation area, it isn’t in an SSSI, it didn’t have a TPO, doesn’t appear to have been afforded any protection whatsoever.
For the council to claim it is ‘criminal damage’ with any credibility it must have been outside land demised to the pub.
It sounds like it ought to have had a TPO but didn’t and who is responsible for that? The same local authority now crying bloody murder about it?
The fact this is listed on the Woodland Trust’s Ancient Tree Inventory but NOT subject to a TPO is a colossal fuck up on the council’s part, it feels like their attitude towards it is just to deflect from that.
Can’t believe he admitted to that!!
Working at Toby Carvery
Any decent tree feller would have checked with the local council first, regardless of what the client said (that way the council will/should have it on record that there’s been interest in whatever specific tree/area).
Looking at the pic there’s a few questionable parts showing dead Heartwood but you can’t see exactly/properly. A dead/diseased tree can still have plenty of good clean Heartwood sections.
Overall it always sad to see a tree that old felled legally or illegally. If illegally I hope whoever did that pays a hefty price.
Now it’s down I can only hope the timber is put to good use.
Am I taking crazy pills or is everyone really losing their mind about a tree near a pub car part?
This is why we can’t have nice things. Fuck these people! This tree was older than some countries, and it’s cut down to make way for a fucking car park.
That tree was alive when Henry VIII was on the throne.
It’s time the government introduced better tree protection for ancient and noteworthy or historic trees, involving a national register, similar to listed buildings and also similar fines for deliberate unauthorised work on them.
Sad and shocking to see a piece of living history cut down. Clearly I don’t understand TPOs as I thought you’d need permission from the council to touch trees like this. If I can take any positives from this it’s the collective love and support for the preservation of our country’s natural environment.
Over 40 million trees are felled each day on earth
Oh oh OH OH.
Show all of us the report from the arborist.
“We need to protect our customers”. From what? Nature or overdone pork joints?
Utter chimps. TBH it wouldn’t surprise me if this was a byproduct of the fact that large companies nowadays (at leat in the UK) are often staffed at the higher levels by nonentities whose sole skills are backstabbing and climbing the greasy pole.
And “arboriculture experts” covers quite a wide variety of people.
I’m tuning in a bit late here, but I know people involved with this tree, I can see the tree, and I can explain why this happened.
The issue is largely with tree surgeons. Let me explain. Tree surgeons are skilled professionals. They know how to take trees down efficiently and safely. But here is the problem. Many of them (yes, I am generalising, but not unfairly) do not truly understand trees. To many, a tree is just an object to be pruned or felled, not a living organism with complexity and function.
Only a handful of tree surgeons across our counties really understand the biology and ecology of trees and work with care and knowledge. Unfortunately, too many homeowners and businesses turn to them expecting an impartial opinion, and that is not what they are trained to give. Tree surgeons make their money from pruning and removals. It is in their interest to find work.
If you want an honest and informed view on your tree, speak to a consultant. People like me survey hundreds of trees each week, and we recommend felling maybe one or two. Most of the time it is light, targeted pruning or no work at all.
There is more to this story, but trust me when I say no arboriculturist with any sound knowledge of trees would have recommended the removal of this one. Far from it.
Any well-trained and responsible tree surgeon could have walked away from this job or advised against it. The fact that this work went ahead suggests someone with the tools and knowledge still thought it was acceptable to do this to the tree, and did so with very little remorse.
In all likelihood, the wrong advice was taken, or the advice was shaped to fit a decision that had already been made:
“We’re thinking of removing this tree. Is there anything wrong with it?”
“Well, it is a bit old… some deadwood… maybe some decay…”
“Perfect. That will do.”
We need to be honest about where our information is coming from, and whether it is real advice or just permission.
Quite rightly this is dumping bucket loads of shit all over Toby Inns. Their corporate press message was nauseating, self preserving bollocks. We see this all too often from business and, regrettably the public sector as well, when they are caught being less than truthful. The pub is leased from Enfield council and is situated in an area of parkland enjoyed by residents, so you would think some over promoted eejit within Toby Inns would have the nous to inform people even if the tree didn’t have a TPO on it at the time.
It looks like no crime has been committed but hopefully the council will now look at all its leased properties in its parks and see if any other TPOs are needed.
I doubt the experts they got in were not that expert and may well have been the “maintenance man with a ladder”. Proper tree surgeons do not leave trees looking like hatstands, especially not in parkland settings.
FUCK Toby Carvery.
Nor darkening their doors again.
There are plenty of other carveries out there.