The problem isn’t pay, it’s workload and conditions.
Greedy-Tutor3824 on
No surprises. The working conditions and workload aren’t good enough for the level of recompense. Most teachers I’ve worked with want what’s best for the kids they’re teaching, but that altruism and good intent is massively stretched. The trouble is, schools need more power to deal behaviour, but that won’t be given because the government naturally don’t want kids out of school. They won’t fund the alternative provisions for the kids that need them. It’s just a cycle of decline. As an adult and professional, you get the choice to walk away from it; it’s not an easy one, but if every other aspect of your life suffers for an idealistic view of making the world better, eventually it becomes unsustainable at a personal level.
H1ghlyVolatile on
Another reason to not have kids. They can’t even get an education at this rate.
JacobsRebuttle on
As others have said, it is the poor pay, heavy workload, many hours of planning and marking and also the less than ideal working conditions. This is what was confirmed to me by a relative who teaches primary school. She used to work in Asia, teaching English at an international school. The pay was the same but the hours were far less, the money went further, it was easier to go on holiday to exotic countries and most of all, the students respected the teachers. In primary and secondary schools across the UK, students don’t respect teachers and it makes work a nightmare.
hadawayandshite on
I want to know more about the survey sample—-is it 1/10 teachers or is it 1/10 unhappy teachers who bothered themselves with doing a survey
Personal_Lab_484 on
Hey! Ex teacher here. I earnt 19k a year through teach first in 2020. Really felt valued.
Then I got a payrise! To 25k in 2022, which is now minimum wage.
I worked in the worst schools. Was spat at. Worked 60 hours a week and then had awful management that constantly wanted more
I had to pay for things for class, like plants and pots for biology. I spent money on glue for class to stick things in as there was no more glue sticks and of course I got blamed if the 9 year olds didn’t have neat books.
I then left and went into finance, cause I’m a graduate from a top university. I now earn 80k a year, more than my head teacher and I’m only 25.
Fuck teaching. If you’re a teacher leave. Not tomorrow, not next year. Now.
There are no happy endings in teaching.
CheapDepth2155 on
Former teacher here and I quit 5 years ago. The children were mostly nice but the parents were a completely different story.
coupl4nd on
I mean, the profession is looked upon like a stain on the shoe… the pay is crap… the kids are not being brought up properly… the government are clueless how to make things better. I’d leave too.
thecheeseboiger on
If we could stop all these nonsense ‘staff meetings’ where a bunch of nobs go around and pat themselves on the back or talk about some poorly understood piece of educational research (the majority of which is farcical anyway) it’d be a much more attractive environment.
I’ve got 60 or so books to mark once the kids are gone, resources to print, parents who want immediate answers to email queries, sometimes lessons need tweaking… I don’t want to hear some nonsense buzzwords designed to make you feel smarter than you are for a whole bloody hour and a half.
That’s my rant over.
Edit: lots of teachers will be leaving the profession in this country but continuing elsewhere where there is less emphasis on performative camraderie or fad research.
ProfPMJ-123 on
A survey run by a highly partisan union has said one in ten “could” quit.
Sounds like utter bullshit to me.
masternick567 on
Lowest hours worked and highest pay in Europe. The truth is teachers are entitled. They complain constantly yet are always striking which impacts education.
gin0clock on
I left education last summer. I was head of year in a secondary school. Here are the reasons why:
* No progression unless you become a middle/senior leader.
* Kids think verbally abusing staff is fine.
* Kids think bullying staff is fine.
* **SOME** staff think bullying kids is fine. It’s rare, but it happens.
* Parents refuse to take accountability in any capacity.
* Parents resort to verbal abuse and threats when they don’t get their way.
* Parents don’t parent their kids, then when they get excluded, complain about having to take time off work.
* General expectation of working until the work is done, no work/home balance.
* Staff not dealing with behaviour in the classroom, expecting me to pick it up.
* Extra-curricular opportunities like football clubs or music groups dropped or difficult to manage due to split lunchtimes.
* Ridiculously underpaid.
* Local authority refuse to PX students who assault teachers.
* Untouchable and useless senior leaders consistently hired because they know or have worked with head teachers previously.
* Teachers in **EVERY** school who abuse maternity/sick leave for consecutive years and totally fuck up the education of their students.
* Year 10/11 lads been given passes for misogyny. This happens far more than anyone would like to admit.
* Beacons of community representative of soulless corporate shells under academy trust leadership.
I worked in education for 10 years across 4 different schools on permanent contracts and all of these problems existed and got gradually worse until I couldn’t gaslight myself to stay any longer.
Moved to work in finance, zero regrets.
Fraenkelbaum on
I have worked in education-related jobs for about 10 years now and for all that time there has been a very definite sense that anybody who feels they can leave is leaving, and that ag any moment students might realise this and stop applying for training. Like one year the entire system could literally just collapse because nobody wants to waste their life propping it up any more, there is no point in the last 10 years where I would be surprised if that happened. Thexwords ‘retention crisis’ have been a common part of the discussion in the sector for a long time, alongside the more publicly understood recruitment crisis. The only thing that has held me back from perceiving it as an emergency is the knowledge that probably every public service is on the brink of system failure in the same way – it’s just that this is the one I happen to know about.
Thomsacvnt on
Obviously anecdotal but I knew 3 teachers who have quit because the ability to discipline children has become increasingly more difficult. No I’m not talking about the cane, but detentions etc. are so much more difficult to give that children are facing much less consequence for their actions within schools.
This alongside parents blaming teachers/schools rather than taking accountability of their children’s actions led them to want to leave education to go work in an office rather than stick it out
Djhuti on
One of the main things that’s mind boggling about the UK education system is the lack of specialization and completely nonsensical timetabling for teachers.
In practically every other country, a teacher will specialize in one or two subjects as well as a particular age range. You will have one teacher exclusively for all the calculus and pre-calculus courses, a second for Algebra I & II, etc… That means each teacher only has to prepare for 3-4 different courses, they have full control over how the material is presented within each (as they are the sole teacher for the course), and they can re-use the materials they developed in prior years to eliminate the vast majority of the prep work before each class.
In the UK, the system is set up to do literally none of these things and genuinely couldn’t be made any less efficient than it currently is. Not only are individual subjects not divided among teachers (meaning you’ll have several teachers all giving lectures on biology, chemistry, AND physics), but even individual courses are subdivided. So students will see one teacher in their calculus course on Monday, a different one Wednesday, and a third the following week.
This means that UK teachers not only have to prepare for more than twice as many different courses as those in other countries, but they also have to coordinate with multiple other teachers for each one because they don’t even see students continuously within them.
smudgethomas on
There was a similar piece about doctors the other day.
Pay is too low for a decent life in this country. People are fed up. If things don’t improve they will vote with their feet.
Top_Nebula620 on
Now, if the headline read as 9 out of 10 teachers set to stay in their career nobody would be making any comments.
dJunka on
Labour shortages don’t improve pay and conditions. We have badly needed teachers, even when I was in school, an essential role and we basically neglect it and make it hell for anyone who tries to do it.
ThatchersDirtyTaint on
Every year the same story rolls around and yet they don’t. My wife’s been saying it for 10 years and continues to say it. She was in this week preparing her class for September.
AverageFishEye on
To become a teacher nowadays you have to be mad.
Youre working a combo job of:
– social care worker
– surrogate parent
– educational staff
– special needs educator
Parents see you as a comtractor responsible to transform their neglected kids into harward graduates
the_englishman on
Hopefully forcing out 37,000 odd students from private to state education due to adding VAT on to fees will not add to this issue.
richardbaxter on
With all that vat on private schools there should be cash for schools by now?
SmellyStarfish81 on
As someone married to a teacher I can confirm workload is an issue. No way would half of the work get done if teachers only worked the hours they were paid for. Everybody knows this to be true but everybody is expected to pick up the slack.
Markjohn66 on
It’s not teaching. It’s crowd control of some ferral monsters.
stoopyface on
Just under one in ten teachers quit or retired last year, but the new trainees generally fill those gaps.
So this headline isn’t as ridiculous as some people in these comments say, but it’s definitely not as bad either.
It is still a net negative for the country, as the 10% leaving will be split across a wider range of experience compared to those entering the profession i.e. teachers leaving could be relatively new or very experienced, whereas new teachers will all have minimal experience. So the average level of teacher experience (and presumably skill) is decreasing year-on-year.
25 Comments
The problem isn’t pay, it’s workload and conditions.
No surprises. The working conditions and workload aren’t good enough for the level of recompense. Most teachers I’ve worked with want what’s best for the kids they’re teaching, but that altruism and good intent is massively stretched. The trouble is, schools need more power to deal behaviour, but that won’t be given because the government naturally don’t want kids out of school. They won’t fund the alternative provisions for the kids that need them. It’s just a cycle of decline. As an adult and professional, you get the choice to walk away from it; it’s not an easy one, but if every other aspect of your life suffers for an idealistic view of making the world better, eventually it becomes unsustainable at a personal level.
Another reason to not have kids. They can’t even get an education at this rate.
As others have said, it is the poor pay, heavy workload, many hours of planning and marking and also the less than ideal working conditions. This is what was confirmed to me by a relative who teaches primary school. She used to work in Asia, teaching English at an international school. The pay was the same but the hours were far less, the money went further, it was easier to go on holiday to exotic countries and most of all, the students respected the teachers. In primary and secondary schools across the UK, students don’t respect teachers and it makes work a nightmare.
I want to know more about the survey sample—-is it 1/10 teachers or is it 1/10 unhappy teachers who bothered themselves with doing a survey
Hey! Ex teacher here. I earnt 19k a year through teach first in 2020. Really felt valued.
Then I got a payrise! To 25k in 2022, which is now minimum wage.
I worked in the worst schools. Was spat at. Worked 60 hours a week and then had awful management that constantly wanted more
I had to pay for things for class, like plants and pots for biology. I spent money on glue for class to stick things in as there was no more glue sticks and of course I got blamed if the 9 year olds didn’t have neat books.
I then left and went into finance, cause I’m a graduate from a top university. I now earn 80k a year, more than my head teacher and I’m only 25.
Fuck teaching. If you’re a teacher leave. Not tomorrow, not next year. Now.
There are no happy endings in teaching.
Former teacher here and I quit 5 years ago. The children were mostly nice but the parents were a completely different story.
I mean, the profession is looked upon like a stain on the shoe… the pay is crap… the kids are not being brought up properly… the government are clueless how to make things better. I’d leave too.
If we could stop all these nonsense ‘staff meetings’ where a bunch of nobs go around and pat themselves on the back or talk about some poorly understood piece of educational research (the majority of which is farcical anyway) it’d be a much more attractive environment.
I’ve got 60 or so books to mark once the kids are gone, resources to print, parents who want immediate answers to email queries, sometimes lessons need tweaking… I don’t want to hear some nonsense buzzwords designed to make you feel smarter than you are for a whole bloody hour and a half.
That’s my rant over.
Edit: lots of teachers will be leaving the profession in this country but continuing elsewhere where there is less emphasis on performative camraderie or fad research.
A survey run by a highly partisan union has said one in ten “could” quit.
Sounds like utter bullshit to me.
Lowest hours worked and highest pay in Europe. The truth is teachers are entitled. They complain constantly yet are always striking which impacts education.
I left education last summer. I was head of year in a secondary school. Here are the reasons why:
* No progression unless you become a middle/senior leader.
* Kids think verbally abusing staff is fine.
* Kids think bullying staff is fine.
* **SOME** staff think bullying kids is fine. It’s rare, but it happens.
* Parents refuse to take accountability in any capacity.
* Parents resort to verbal abuse and threats when they don’t get their way.
* Parents don’t parent their kids, then when they get excluded, complain about having to take time off work.
* General expectation of working until the work is done, no work/home balance.
* Staff not dealing with behaviour in the classroom, expecting me to pick it up.
* Extra-curricular opportunities like football clubs or music groups dropped or difficult to manage due to split lunchtimes.
* Ridiculously underpaid.
* Local authority refuse to PX students who assault teachers.
* Untouchable and useless senior leaders consistently hired because they know or have worked with head teachers previously.
* Teachers in **EVERY** school who abuse maternity/sick leave for consecutive years and totally fuck up the education of their students.
* Year 10/11 lads been given passes for misogyny. This happens far more than anyone would like to admit.
* Beacons of community representative of soulless corporate shells under academy trust leadership.
I worked in education for 10 years across 4 different schools on permanent contracts and all of these problems existed and got gradually worse until I couldn’t gaslight myself to stay any longer.
Moved to work in finance, zero regrets.
I have worked in education-related jobs for about 10 years now and for all that time there has been a very definite sense that anybody who feels they can leave is leaving, and that ag any moment students might realise this and stop applying for training. Like one year the entire system could literally just collapse because nobody wants to waste their life propping it up any more, there is no point in the last 10 years where I would be surprised if that happened. Thexwords ‘retention crisis’ have been a common part of the discussion in the sector for a long time, alongside the more publicly understood recruitment crisis. The only thing that has held me back from perceiving it as an emergency is the knowledge that probably every public service is on the brink of system failure in the same way – it’s just that this is the one I happen to know about.
Obviously anecdotal but I knew 3 teachers who have quit because the ability to discipline children has become increasingly more difficult. No I’m not talking about the cane, but detentions etc. are so much more difficult to give that children are facing much less consequence for their actions within schools.
This alongside parents blaming teachers/schools rather than taking accountability of their children’s actions led them to want to leave education to go work in an office rather than stick it out
One of the main things that’s mind boggling about the UK education system is the lack of specialization and completely nonsensical timetabling for teachers.
In practically every other country, a teacher will specialize in one or two subjects as well as a particular age range. You will have one teacher exclusively for all the calculus and pre-calculus courses, a second for Algebra I & II, etc… That means each teacher only has to prepare for 3-4 different courses, they have full control over how the material is presented within each (as they are the sole teacher for the course), and they can re-use the materials they developed in prior years to eliminate the vast majority of the prep work before each class.
In the UK, the system is set up to do literally none of these things and genuinely couldn’t be made any less efficient than it currently is. Not only are individual subjects not divided among teachers (meaning you’ll have several teachers all giving lectures on biology, chemistry, AND physics), but even individual courses are subdivided. So students will see one teacher in their calculus course on Monday, a different one Wednesday, and a third the following week.
This means that UK teachers not only have to prepare for more than twice as many different courses as those in other countries, but they also have to coordinate with multiple other teachers for each one because they don’t even see students continuously within them.
There was a similar piece about doctors the other day.
Pay is too low for a decent life in this country. People are fed up. If things don’t improve they will vote with their feet.
Now, if the headline read as 9 out of 10 teachers set to stay in their career nobody would be making any comments.
Labour shortages don’t improve pay and conditions. We have badly needed teachers, even when I was in school, an essential role and we basically neglect it and make it hell for anyone who tries to do it.
Every year the same story rolls around and yet they don’t. My wife’s been saying it for 10 years and continues to say it. She was in this week preparing her class for September.
To become a teacher nowadays you have to be mad.
Youre working a combo job of:
– social care worker
– surrogate parent
– educational staff
– special needs educator
Parents see you as a comtractor responsible to transform their neglected kids into harward graduates
Hopefully forcing out 37,000 odd students from private to state education due to adding VAT on to fees will not add to this issue.
With all that vat on private schools there should be cash for schools by now?
As someone married to a teacher I can confirm workload is an issue. No way would half of the work get done if teachers only worked the hours they were paid for. Everybody knows this to be true but everybody is expected to pick up the slack.
It’s not teaching. It’s crowd control of some ferral monsters.
Just under one in ten teachers quit or retired last year, but the new trainees generally fill those gaps.
So this headline isn’t as ridiculous as some people in these comments say, but it’s definitely not as bad either.
It is still a net negative for the country, as the 10% leaving will be split across a wider range of experience compared to those entering the profession i.e. teachers leaving could be relatively new or very experienced, whereas new teachers will all have minimal experience. So the average level of teacher experience (and presumably skill) is decreasing year-on-year.