U.S. Is Losing Race to Return to Moon, Critics Say, Pointing at SpaceX
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/20/us/politics/spacex-us-moon-race.html?unlocked_article_code=1.nU8.MZ6M.LTeaCtPSAHib
U.S. Is Losing Race to Return to Moon, Critics Say, Pointing at SpaceX
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/20/us/politics/spacex-us-moon-race.html?unlocked_article_code=1.nU8.MZ6M.LTeaCtPSAHib
40 Comments
I like the news recently that the Artemis 2 rocket is ready.
But, when I come on here and mention that the US is losing to China because of delays, I get downvoted into oblivion.
Yes, totally SpaceX’s fault that Congress underfunded every part of the program except wasting billions on the SLS, which took 20 years to get off the ground. It’s also SpaceX’s fault that the administration hasn’t committed to the program and this year proposed significantly cutting NASA’s budget, leading to wide scale departures and layoffs. It’s gotta be SpaceX’s fault, with the $3b and 5 years that they were awarded out of $100b and 20+ years of the program as a whole, has fallen behind schedule. It’s SpaceX’s fault that the unnecessarily complex system of launching humans to send them to a tiny space station around the moon so they could get out of the first spacecraft and get into another spacecraft just for the moon landing so that they could ride the second spacecraft back to the space station, get on the first spacecraft, and then return to Earth is at risk of not meeting timelines when we haven’t seen a single human test the Orion craft, the Gateway hasn’t launched, and the SLS isn’t ready for the later stages of the mission.
Sure.
Losing? We’ve already lost. The Trump admin has seen to that.
This article is so short sited.
What race to the Moon? To set foot on the moon? The US won that. China’s about to catch up from their 60 year deficit.
The race to colonize the Moon? The US is way ahead in that race because Starship is the only system that makes that truly cost effective.
China might put boots back first but one mission of Artemis will land more cargo than 10 China landings. So perspective might be key here.
Point at gross underfunding of science in general.
Trump and the GOP cut funding for NASA, science, and education. They have ceded US dominance in space so Donnie’s big $$$ donors can get even richer.
There is so much happening in the private space sector at least, it seems like thats one area china actually is struggling with vs the west.
Super excited for rocketlabs neutron debut later this year, its going to be a significant new launch vehicle
No, Space X has helped the US maintain its space savvy.
The media has been glooming and dooming the US for years and years now. China was supposed to have knocked the US economy off its pedestal by now. LOL
China is run by technocrats and engineers. The US is run by morons who think 5G will give you Covid. What do you expect?
Am I allowed to copy/paste my interpretation in [another sub](https://www.reddit.com/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/1nlw47e/nyt_us_is_losing_race_to_return_to_moon_critics/)?
>Other parts of the NASA moon mission are nearly ready, after their own delays and cost overruns… But SpaceX’s lunar lander project is now so far behind schedule that there are increasing doubts the United States will beat China…
Starting off with a bang. Perhaps they should mention that Orion has been in development and funded sine 2006, and HLS since 2021?
>But seven current and former senior NASA officials, in [recent](https://www.commerce.senate.gov/2025/9/there-s-a-bad-moon-on-the-rise-why-congress-and-nasa-must-thwart-china-in-the-space-race_2)public %5Bstatements%5D(https://www.congress.gov/118/chrg/CHRG-118hhrg54502/CHRG-118hhrg54502.pdf#page=70) and interviews with The New York Times, said their questions about SpaceX and its new Starship rocket had nothing to do with the public spat between the president and his biggest campaign donor.
Those 7 officials including Allen Cutler, President of t[he Coalition for Deep Space Exploration](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coalition_for_Deep_Space_Exploration), founded by Aerojet, Boeing, Lockheed and Northrup; Jim Bridenstine, who works for ULA; and John Shaw, who works for Sierra Space.
None of these conflicts of interest were described in this article.
>Part of the problem, former NASA officials acknowledge, is they chose an excessively complicated lunar landing plan, starting during Mr. Trump’s first term. Trump administration officials back then did not take up a proposal to construct a lander based on [existing, proven technology](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/326075772_An_affordable_lunar_architecture_emphasizing_commercial_and_international_partnering_opportunities), said Mr. Loverro, who helped devise the alternative lander proposal starting in late 2019 when he joined NASA.
The link is to a paper describing an architecture utilizing the Constellation program. Ares V, which SLS is essentially derived from, was a far more capable rocket ([70t to TLI](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ares_V) vs 27t for SLS). SLS can’t even deliver Orion to a low lunar orbit, necessitating all of these issues that the NYT is complaining about.
>This could include [reviving the earlier plan](https://republicans-science.house.gov/_cache/files/2/d/2dc97bb6-040b-4d15-ae69-6b8de637174d/448A0B95841995613C9A9B19135C104C.2024-01-17-griffin—testimony.pdf#page=4) for a simple, proven lunar lander design that could be built in about five years and not require orbital refueling, the [former](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lwLibrZFiA) NASA officials said.
If you click on the linked article, the first step to their plan is refueling a Centaur III upper stage in orbit. And hydrolox refueling is far more questionable than methalox, giving the complexities of dealing with liquid hydrogen. Clearly the writer of the article didn’t look at his own references. Also requires the SLS Block 2, which isn’t scheduled to launch until Artemis 9, and requires NG’s BOLE, which recently exploded on it’s test stand in Utah.
>Without such a shift, the United States is likely to lose the race, the former NASA officials predicted.
China is trying to replicate Apollo. Artemis is trying to build a moon base. The finish lines for both are fairly distant.
This was a really poorly researched and biased article. Shame on the author, Eric Lipton, and The NY Times.
Anybody who suggests the US can develop a brand new crewed lunar lander from scratch in 5 years to replace Starship is delusional, especially if this is to be done by old space companies like Lockheed Martin and Boeing. Loverro, Cooke, etc should know this very well, given they oversaw Orion which is simpler than a lander but still took 20 years to develop. Yet they nevertheless are suggesting this, someone is being dishonest here.
Kind of annoying that these threads are an almost daily thing on r/space news now with no variation. Meanwhile actual tech or update posts are basically ignored.
With regards to blaming SpaceX though, i’d say that’s more the US governments fault for being so twitchy with plans over 2 and a half decades. “We’re doing constellation, actually no, we’re doing comets, WE’RE DOING MARS, actually no we’re doing the moon, we’re doing the moon.. but lower budget?”
I love Obama but his admin was terrible for space related programs.
Setting ambitious goals that push a stagnant industry into evolving isn’t a bad thing. What a hack article.
So what?
Say China gets to the moon before we return to the moon. A Taikonaut plants a Red Banner on the moon, and all of America freaks the fuck out. The US would spare no expense to one-up the Chinese after that.
And if we don’t, the industry is already spending plenty of its own money to try and get hardware on the surface and explore commercial opportunities in Cislunar space, which will ramp up and eclipse any flags-and-footprints effort.
Oh no, we basically attacked science and slashed funding for NASA, who would have predicted there would be
*Checks notes+
Consequences
Oh no, not the moon! What will we do if someone else is on the moon? They will have moon advantage and what will we have? Nothing, thats what.
Didnt a U.S corp just put another lunar lander on the moon back in March?
We are the only country that can return to the moon. Words still have meaning, right??
Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I’ve seen in this thread:
|Fewer Letters|More Letters|
|——-|———|—|
|[ARM](/r/Space/comments/1nlz2p6/stub/nf9dgbc “Last usage”)|Asteroid Redirect Mission|
| |Advanced RISC Machines, embedded processor architecture|
|[BO](/r/Space/comments/1nlz2p6/stub/nf9iyst “Last usage”)|Blue Origin (*Bezos Rocketry*)|
|[CNSA](/r/Space/comments/1nlz2p6/stub/nf9lypt “Last usage”)|Chinese National Space Administration|
|CST|(Boeing) Crew Space Transportation capsules|
| |Central Standard Time (UTC-6)|
|[DRO](/r/Space/comments/1nlz2p6/stub/nf9dgbc “Last usage”)|[Distant Retrograde Orbit](http://ccar.colorado.edu/asen5050/projects/projects_2013/Johnson_Kirstyn/finalorbit.html)|
|[F1](/r/Space/comments/1nlz2p6/stub/nf93ola “Last usage”)|Rocketdyne-developed rocket engine used for Saturn V|
| |SpaceX Falcon 1 (obsolete small-lift vehicle)|
|[HLS](/r/Space/comments/1nlz2p6/stub/nf9iyst “Last usage”)|[Human Landing System](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artemis_program#Human_Landing_System) (Artemis)|
|[NG](/r/Space/comments/1nlz2p6/stub/nf94sb3 “Last usage”)|New Glenn, two/three-stage orbital vehicle by Blue Origin|
| |Natural Gas (as opposed to pure methane)|
| |Northrop Grumman, aerospace manufacturer|
|[NTR](/r/Space/comments/1nlz2p6/stub/nf99vx8 “Last usage”)|Nuclear Thermal Rocket|
|[Roscosmos](/r/Space/comments/1nlz2p6/stub/nf9lypt “Last usage”)|[State Corporation for Space Activities, Russia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roscosmos_State_Corporation)|
|[SLS](/r/Space/comments/1nlz2p6/stub/nf9iyst “Last usage”)|Space Launch System heavy-lift|
|[TLI](/r/Space/comments/1nlz2p6/stub/nf94sb3 “Last usage”)|Trans-Lunar Injection maneuver|
|[ULA](/r/Space/comments/1nlz2p6/stub/nf9hl0m “Last usage”)|United Launch Alliance (Lockheed/Boeing joint venture)|
|Jargon|Definition|
|——-|———|—|
|[Starliner](/r/Space/comments/1nlz2p6/stub/nf98pld “Last usage”)|Boeing commercial crew capsule [CST-100](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_CST-100_Starliner)|
|[Starlink](/r/Space/comments/1nlz2p6/stub/nf9fh27 “Last usage”)|SpaceX’s world-wide satellite broadband constellation|
|[cislunar](/r/Space/comments/1nlz2p6/stub/nf9dgbc “Last usage”)|Between the Earth and Moon; within the Moon’s orbit|
|[hydrolox](/r/Space/comments/1nlz2p6/stub/nf94sb3 “Last usage”)|Portmanteau: liquid hydrogen fuel, liquid oxygen oxidizer|
|[methalox](/r/Space/comments/1nlz2p6/stub/nf94sb3 “Last usage”)|Portmanteau: methane fuel, liquid oxygen oxidizer|
Decronym is now also available on Lemmy! Requests for support and new installations should be directed to the Contact address below.
—————-
^([Thread #11681 for this sub, first seen 20th Sep 2025, 15:11])
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We already beat China– and everyone else– to the Moon.
We just need to settle down and do things right. Will we?
LOLOLOLOL Nooooooo.
Fuck Elon, but this smells like a Lockheed/Bezos funded piece. Boots are one thing, but the only proposal I’ve seen that seems likely to put actual permanent infrastructure on the moon (including potentially reactors) is Starship. We’ve already done boots, who cares about beating China back if it means Apollo 2.0?
Sorry. This is not a second moon race.
It’s a race for second. The US won.
Now, are there compelling, practical reasons to return? Maybe. But let’s not just treat it as a second race.
The moon expedition created many technological innovations and pushed the science of the day to new heights. Returning to the moon wouldn’t have nearly the payoff and, at this point, is only for ego. These efforts would be better spent on long-range expeditions and resolving issues here at home.
Can’t get behind going back to an unlivable rock.
that headline makes little sense. Why point at SpaceX alone? As much as I hate Elon Musk, all the other “space” companies are worse. Darling dear Boeing, ULA, etc… The SLS has been horrifically expensive and delayed too. And maybe the worst part is how the current administration wants to cut funding for space everywhere.
We haven’t lost any race to the moon. Let’s be real, it’s 6-0 right now. With that being said, I’d love for us to go back. There’s more work to be done.
All comments disagree with the article but it still gets tons of upvotes. Typical reddit
Shit take by New York Times, which is pretty standard. The point of returning to the mission isn’t to “race” China towards replicating an engineering feat we managed more than fifty years ago.
The **only point to the moon mission**, is demoing technology for a Mars return mission somewhere 3 days from home instead of 3-6 months.
That’s why Artemis is so shit. It’s a technological dead end that doesn’t advance us in any way beyond the technical capabilities and mission profiles available in the 1960s. Its a $4 billion per launch on a flight to nowhere, and the best modern example of why NASA is a failure. Blame congressional oversight if you want, but clearly the solution isn’t throwing more money at them because the entire Starship program to date cost Elon barely a quarter of a single SLS launch.
Starship, whether it’s “late* on some arbitrary timeline or not is a platform that meaningfully expands our spaceflight capabilities. That, and the crewed Mars landing it enables are what matter, not whether we can roleplay a re-enactment of the moon landing with China.
What race to the moon?
We’ve already been to the moon 6 times, we already won the race.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTjMqda19wk
Ever so relevant.
The US has been to the moon. Like… 60 years ago. This race has ended decades ago. Who cares if China is next to land there?
Erm, did the critics forget what happened in 1969?
I hate Elon Musk and SpaceX is a symbol for his growing power and cult of personality. That being said, SpaceX is not responsible for USA’s poor showing in the new moon race. The moon is not the primary thing SpaceX is focused on, and the technological innovations with Starship go beyond ‘getting back to the moon’ for some international pissing contest.
There are much bigger implications from Starship and it’s development than the moon.
Who cares about the moon? We want to go to Mars. In other words, been there, done that.
They don’t even have space suits ready for the moon. I’d hardly lay all the blame on one company.
Space is hard. Takes awhile. They will get there.
Honestly, I love the idea of returning to the moon and fully support space exploration, but I think the US has bigger problems right now.
SpaceX (on its own, without SLS or Orion) is the US’s best and only hope both to reach the moon before China and to have a long term system for developing the Moon.
We’ve already been to the moon. What is the scientific or strategic benefit to returning? Are there resources on the moon?
We might be losing the space race, but at least our healthcare, retirement, education, and infrastructure problems are handled! Oh wait! Hmmm, well at least we have Jimmy Kimmel… oh wait…
Let the military industrial complex have a payday some other time