I really don’t care when fictional worlds based on medieval British/European folklore gets diversified for a modern audience. It’s fiction, after all.
Doing it with actual history though gives me a major ick.
Owzwills on
We discuss rightly the danger of Fake news, but that Fake news will become Fake history eventually. This Fake history is equally as dangerous. This is fake history no matter which way you cut it.
Sensitive_Echo5058 on
“When the idea was initially conceived in 2021, the creative team behind the work released a video stating: “We’re proud to bring together some of Scotland’s leading archaeologists, with a host of queer, marginalised and disabled voices to dispel misconceptions of the past.”
A genetic study published in 2023 found that the Picts – who were concentrated in north-east Scotland – were descended from ancient Iron Age populations who had long lived in Britain.
The same study also found that there was clear genetic continuity between the Picts and modern-day Scots in the same region.”
We shouldn’t allow people to invent a history that did not exist to fit contemporary social narratives. The stories involving ancient Black people that are likely most interesting and factual are those relating to continental Africans.
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FloydEGag on
Does it matter that Scotland or anywhere else was or wasn’t racially diverse a couple of thousand years ago? What matters is now, surely. I know it’s helpful to know that our society has been multiracial (albeit on a smaller scale than in the last 100 years or so) for a long time but there’s no need to just make stuff up; surely later finding out the Picts were not black would be upsetting to a black kid who had read this and believed they were?
There’s plenty of evidence of black Britons in the past, just not *that* long ago and not in that area. But this is like claiming there were white people in South Africa two thousand years ago. I get it’s done with good intentions but it’s not very educational if it’s incorrect, is it?
PunkAintNotFun on
Absolutely ridiculous, fictional worlds absolutely fine but this is part of our history
0_f2 on
People of different races *did* find their way to Britain occasionally throughout history, but those were individuals, traveling traders and ship crew members and the like.
The core population of Britain throughout history has mainly come from waves of migration from Scandinavia, where limited sunlight ensures any long term population trends towards lighter skin.
Living-Log-3537 on
‘Cultural misappropriation’ is a phrase well known, but not at the Telegraph, apparently.
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99thLuftballon on
> The book also claimed that “Britain has been a mostly white country for a lot less time than it has been a mostly black country”.
Is there any evidence to suggest this? I would’ve thought that, as a cold, northern European country, we would’ve evolved to be as white as every other northern European country. Not mention being invaded by the Romans, Vikings, Saxons, Normans etc – all of whom would’ve been of European origin. The Moors didn’t make it as far as Britain.
I’d be curious to know the source of this claim, just out of academic interest.
Itznxs_ on
I really wonder what goes on in these peoples minds to do this? Like why?
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Kezolt on
How about teaching some African other cultures history rather than doing that 😅
Ryanhussain14 on
Is anyone with immigrant heritage actually impressed by this nonsense? My ancestors spent generations in Bangladesh and my parents were the first in my family lineage to migrate to the UK. I’m not ashamed by this, I think integrating and assimilating into another culture is a normal part of life. I feel and believe I am British because I like the country and its culture and am willing to be a productive and law abiding citizen and receive the goodwill of my neighbours. I don’t need some historical revisionism to feel more British, that just feels insulting.
Euclid_Interloper on
I’m sure the occasional black or brown merchant or slave made it up the coast of Scotland along trade routes. Especially when the Roams were in Britain. But it would have been EXCEPTIONALLY rare and probably quite the local event.
The idea that the Picts were rocking about with the demographics of modern Birmingham’s is pretty damn funny.
honkballs on
I helped my 8 year old niece with her homework the other night.
All 3 books didn’t have a single white person in them, it was all either black or brown families… she goes to a small village school which is 100% white.
It feels they’ve tried so hard to be “inclusive”, they’ve ended up excluding the majority of the population and is rather ridiculous.
Alternative link for those that like to read multiple sources.
Danqazmlp0 on
Bit of a weird article. Looks like it’s a game set in a Pict world.
dcnb65 on
I believe in equality, but this is just ridiculous nonsense. British history is British history and trying to rewrite it as something else is dishonest and disrespectful.
ExpressAffect3262 on
Is there any actual evidence that non-white children don’t pick up books if there’s no non-white characters in the book?
White writers tend to write characters who are white, unless you have certain books where race really isn’t a factor (such as The Gruffalo).
I even googled the above and came along this quote:
>Teacher, Darren Chetty, says: “I’ve heard children say that they think their written stories should be about white children.
Really? He’s explicitly heard children say “I’m drawing white people”. We wrote stories as kids, even illustrating one. Race was never ever a consideration, because I was like 9 years old…
BBC published and article in 2017 and if I’m going to be honest, and idc if it’s insensitive, it just sounds like another excuse for funding.
A BAME writer complaining there needs to be funding for minorities to get books published. Or you know, good books get published and don’t need to rely on some form of excuse?
Just feels like the whole movie situation where BAME actors complain they can’t get roles instead of just being better actors. It’s absolute cancel culture if a white person portrays a non-white character, but you’re suddenly far-right if you moan a non-white actor plays a white character.
Astriania on
This is the kind of nonsense that gives the left a bad name. And yeah “it’s just a RPG book” except it isn’t, its website clearly indicates that the setting is accurate and gives you a good guide to what Pictish NE Scotland was really like.
I bet there was never a single black African in the whole area during that time. There would have been in England (some Roman soldiers would have come from there and settled, or traded) but the Romans never made it up here, and the trade was with Scandinavia.
What is the political agenda of pretending that NW Europe wasn’t ethnically white up until around 1950? Who benefits from an intentional rewriting of history?
rdu3y6 on
I’ll write a kids book about Genghis Khan or maybe the Inca and show them as blonde haired white people then. Should be absolutely fine. /s
sf-keto on
Pish-tosh. We all know Picts were *blue*. Eumenius, the Roman historian, documented this in detail.
Luficer_Morning_star on
This is like me saying the Japanese built Rome it’s just fundamental a lie
ISO_3103_ on
Can we start doing this in reverse? I vote Tom Hardy for Mansa Musa in the Netflix adaptation.
26 Comments
I really don’t care when fictional worlds based on medieval British/European folklore gets diversified for a modern audience. It’s fiction, after all.
Doing it with actual history though gives me a major ick.
We discuss rightly the danger of Fake news, but that Fake news will become Fake history eventually. This Fake history is equally as dangerous. This is fake history no matter which way you cut it.
“When the idea was initially conceived in 2021, the creative team behind the work released a video stating: “We’re proud to bring together some of Scotland’s leading archaeologists, with a host of queer, marginalised and disabled voices to dispel misconceptions of the past.”
A genetic study published in 2023 found that the Picts – who were concentrated in north-east Scotland – were descended from ancient Iron Age populations who had long lived in Britain.
The same study also found that there was clear genetic continuity between the Picts and modern-day Scots in the same region.”
We shouldn’t allow people to invent a history that did not exist to fit contemporary social narratives. The stories involving ancient Black people that are likely most interesting and factual are those relating to continental Africans.
[removed]
Does it matter that Scotland or anywhere else was or wasn’t racially diverse a couple of thousand years ago? What matters is now, surely. I know it’s helpful to know that our society has been multiracial (albeit on a smaller scale than in the last 100 years or so) for a long time but there’s no need to just make stuff up; surely later finding out the Picts were not black would be upsetting to a black kid who had read this and believed they were?
There’s plenty of evidence of black Britons in the past, just not *that* long ago and not in that area. But this is like claiming there were white people in South Africa two thousand years ago. I get it’s done with good intentions but it’s not very educational if it’s incorrect, is it?
Absolutely ridiculous, fictional worlds absolutely fine but this is part of our history
People of different races *did* find their way to Britain occasionally throughout history, but those were individuals, traveling traders and ship crew members and the like.
The core population of Britain throughout history has mainly come from waves of migration from Scandinavia, where limited sunlight ensures any long term population trends towards lighter skin.
‘Cultural misappropriation’ is a phrase well known, but not at the Telegraph, apparently.
[removed]
[removed]
> The book also claimed that “Britain has been a mostly white country for a lot less time than it has been a mostly black country”.
Is there any evidence to suggest this? I would’ve thought that, as a cold, northern European country, we would’ve evolved to be as white as every other northern European country. Not mention being invaded by the Romans, Vikings, Saxons, Normans etc – all of whom would’ve been of European origin. The Moors didn’t make it as far as Britain.
I’d be curious to know the source of this claim, just out of academic interest.
I really wonder what goes on in these peoples minds to do this? Like why?
[removed]
How about teaching some African other cultures history rather than doing that 😅
Is anyone with immigrant heritage actually impressed by this nonsense? My ancestors spent generations in Bangladesh and my parents were the first in my family lineage to migrate to the UK. I’m not ashamed by this, I think integrating and assimilating into another culture is a normal part of life. I feel and believe I am British because I like the country and its culture and am willing to be a productive and law abiding citizen and receive the goodwill of my neighbours. I don’t need some historical revisionism to feel more British, that just feels insulting.
I’m sure the occasional black or brown merchant or slave made it up the coast of Scotland along trade routes. Especially when the Roams were in Britain. But it would have been EXCEPTIONALLY rare and probably quite the local event.
The idea that the Picts were rocking about with the demographics of modern Birmingham’s is pretty damn funny.
I helped my 8 year old niece with her homework the other night.
All 3 books didn’t have a single white person in them, it was all either black or brown families… she goes to a small village school which is 100% white.
It feels they’ve tried so hard to be “inclusive”, they’ve ended up excluding the majority of the population and is rather ridiculous.
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/25613327.rpg-praised-best-book-ever-scotlands-mysterious-picts/
Alternative link for those that like to read multiple sources.
Bit of a weird article. Looks like it’s a game set in a Pict world.
I believe in equality, but this is just ridiculous nonsense. British history is British history and trying to rewrite it as something else is dishonest and disrespectful.
Is there any actual evidence that non-white children don’t pick up books if there’s no non-white characters in the book?
White writers tend to write characters who are white, unless you have certain books where race really isn’t a factor (such as The Gruffalo).
I even googled the above and came along this quote:
>Teacher, Darren Chetty, says: “I’ve heard children say that they think their written stories should be about white children.
Really? He’s explicitly heard children say “I’m drawing white people”. We wrote stories as kids, even illustrating one. Race was never ever a consideration, because I was like 9 years old…
BBC published and article in 2017 and if I’m going to be honest, and idc if it’s insensitive, it just sounds like another excuse for funding.
A BAME writer complaining there needs to be funding for minorities to get books published. Or you know, good books get published and don’t need to rely on some form of excuse?
Just feels like the whole movie situation where BAME actors complain they can’t get roles instead of just being better actors. It’s absolute cancel culture if a white person portrays a non-white character, but you’re suddenly far-right if you moan a non-white actor plays a white character.
This is the kind of nonsense that gives the left a bad name. And yeah “it’s just a RPG book” except it isn’t, its website clearly indicates that the setting is accurate and gives you a good guide to what Pictish NE Scotland was really like.
I bet there was never a single black African in the whole area during that time. There would have been in England (some Roman soldiers would have come from there and settled, or traded) but the Romans never made it up here, and the trade was with Scandinavia.
What is the political agenda of pretending that NW Europe wasn’t ethnically white up until around 1950? Who benefits from an intentional rewriting of history?
I’ll write a kids book about Genghis Khan or maybe the Inca and show them as blonde haired white people then. Should be absolutely fine. /s
Pish-tosh. We all know Picts were *blue*. Eumenius, the Roman historian, documented this in detail.
This is like me saying the Japanese built Rome it’s just fundamental a lie
Can we start doing this in reverse? I vote Tom Hardy for Mansa Musa in the Netflix adaptation.