Care to share any specific quotes from this publication? I don’t trust quotes shared by random twitter/X accounts.
Ok-Photo-6302 on
book about Volksdeutsch… wonderful
Nano_needle on
Maybe there were lol. There certainly were Polish collaborators.
Val2K21 on
With or without the context of this particular book, I find the widespread idea that Poles had literally zero collaborants nor any responsibility for Holocaust, to put it mildly, odd
Folded_Fireplace on
German – Israeli propaganda as it’s finest.
chinkalichaczapuri on
Paid by Germany to show Poland as accomplice in WW2 crimes and have arguments to don’t pay reparations.
bombuszek on
Judenrats – Jewish councils established by German authorities also collaborated with their perpetrators and were responsible for the Holocaust. I imagine Jewish reactions if somebody brought up this topic.
H3BCKN on
There is only one nation who started genocides (plural, a genocides on Slavs, Jews or Roma). And one nation and country to blame only. Handful of non-German collaborators and traitors will not change it.
zubergu on
I mean, if the book is well researched, shows undeniable proof of such actions by specific individuals then what’s the issue?
Not to mention that this book will be read by like 1000 people in the whole world, 900 of which will be most likely russian propagandists that won’t ever go beyond the title.
Igusss_ on
there were plenty of anti jewish posters etc in 1930s in poland recently i have seen a beach with a sign jews entry prohibited or something like that but still if it wasn’t for the nazis this stuff would have not happened in poland
Educational-Rip-5572 on
Niemcy i Austriacy próbujący wybielić swoją historię i zrzucić winę za holocaust na kogoś innego niż oni sami? Nowe nie znałem.
Grzanason on
And Poles will still say that Germany has changed, they just want to shift the blame to someone else.
PawelTeam on
Its germans fault. They were responsible for this
PlankBlank on
I don’t know the contents of the book, but every single country has some massacre in their closet. Even though the Holocaust is German doing, you can’t deny things like Jedwabnem. The numbers are different, circumstances obviously convoluted but a massacre is a massacre no matter what statistics say.
While keeping historical truth straight is important, you can basically just compare between countries who killed more, and the answer typically is that the more powerful country during a certain period, killed more than weaker ones.
I find it way more important to keep current politics in a shape that allows for avoidance of genocides. Over attachment to the past creates conflicts that are absurd, because people of the current age aren’t responsible for their ancestors.
It’s more of the other way around. The ancestors are responsible for creating optimal circumstances for the next generations.
ihatethiswebzone on
They probably were, just wait until you all find out about polish police in the GG
gdziejestluk on
Who is this author? Why should we consider him an authority?
fabiplz on
[ Removed by Reddit ]
blinkinbling on
Not only. Polish railway workers, police, even firemen were actively supporting holocaust.
New-Rush8345 on
“Not Nazis – Germans”
“Not Poles – Traitors”
Prepare for standards, and make them double.
I think it’s important to remember that being criminal isn’t exclusive to one nation.
People like this were among our grandparents back then, and people like this are among us today. It’s important to know that, because next genocidal maniac may not be… German. They may rise to power not opposed because people will ignore clear warnings. Because they won’t think someone among us may have such plans. Because they will strongly belief, they are better, that their nation deserves better, and god forbid, another nation doesn’t deserve anything, even right to exist. With dedication, to Russians,
Ok_Area3722 on
It’s always what went on during the war that gets the spotlight but not what happened afterwards. The Germans were defeated already when the Kielce Pogrom happened in July 4th, 1946. It was started by a false rumor that a Jewish person had kidnapped a Polish boy, which in turn caused people to go and attack random Jews out on the street resulting in 42 killed and 40 seriously injured. Many of those victims being survivors of the Nazis that were just beginning to return home.
Why did this happen after the war? Because antisemitism didn’t just stop existing after the Nazis left Poland, some locals still believed in old stereotypes and myths about Jews there. The country was at the beginning of new communist rule which further laid the groundwork for the spread of rumors. Other Jews trying to return back home after the war also faced hostility from locals over land and home disputes that were created by Nazi looting and displacements.
TronaldDamp on
Ale to jest prawda. W małych miastach/wsiach żydów wydawali i często zabijali Polacy potem osiedlając się w ich domach.
eggnog232323 on
Some people in here fail to realize that according to the book Polish mayors under German occupation were given large degree of autonomy and ability to pursue their own goals and policy aside from German supervision. Book tries to portray them as willing and equal allies of German occupation forces, completely ignoring the fact that they couldn’t refuse due to the obvious.
Also the book was funded by Fritz Thyssen Foundation who was one of Hitler’s earliest supporters, until he realized that war is pretty bad for his business and fled to Switzerland.
darokrol on
Apparently, Poles killed more Jews than Germans during 2WW.
authorised_pope on
Wow. First we got “Nazis” instead of “Germans”, now it’s “Polish Mayors” instead of said “Nazis”. What a fascinating, though not unexpected, turn of events!
_Chleb on
I really don’t get why people are getting so mad about such books.
Were there Polish collaborators? Yes.
Were these particular people co-responsible for the genocide? Yes.
Does it deny the German, leading role in the holocaust? No.
Does it shift the blame onto Poland as a whole? No.
The author just describes real events, that took place. There’s no reason to get mad about it, because it’s inconvenient for us. It’s just a history book like any other, simply touching a topic sensitive for many. There are countless books describing the participation of other nations in the holocaust, it’s not like the entire focus is on Poland. I really can’t understand why people treat those books as some kind of revisionism, when they are just stating facts.
No-Program9220 on
After traveling through Germany, you guess who could commit such crimes again and again. You can see their expression change the moment you don’t speak German with them
Happinessisawarmbunn on
Yup. What interesting timing. What did AfD say the other day? Sounds like the case to destroy Poland is getting reheated! Funny this book is being presented in German at the CEU Jewish studies program.
I assume they will also do the honor of presenting it in Poland to share this story?
Im not doubting there’s some truth to it- but it does seem awfully strange to single out Polish people and not mention, well you know who.
kociorro on
“21 listopad” undoubtedly proper Polish form
multadek on
is the writer’s last name tusk?
PanglossianMessiah on
My god 3-5 million Poles alone lived in West Germany in the thirties (Ruhrpoles) but do not tell the Poles… Whole cities in West Germany have been ruled by local Polish parties. Until now big cities in Ruhrgebiet celebrate “70% Polish ancestors” festivities. Means during the attack 1939 there was a significant population percentage (10-15%?) of Poles in the Reich. Polish history nowadays ist still the same what Russians fed them 45years long.
grafknives on
Ale w sensie że co?
Że dokumenty kłamią? Że nic takiego nie miało miejsca?
Że nie organizowano polowań na żydów, że administracja cywilna nie współpracowała z niemieckim okupantem przy tworzeniu gett, pilnowaniu i a potem parcelacją dóbr które po Żydach zostały?
rjptrink on
To what extent would pogroms have occurred in Poland during WW2 had it not been for Nazi occupation? Pogroms occurred for centuries before the Nazis came along. The difference was that the official policy of the Nazi military occupiers was to encourage, conduct, sanction, approve etc… the pogroms. Of course, individuals were responsible for their actions, but don’t ignore the context when deciding who was culpable.
Disastrous_Ad_6024 on
Why were some Polish people participating in Holocaust? Poles voted for it or was there some other reason?
33 Comments
Care to share any specific quotes from this publication? I don’t trust quotes shared by random twitter/X accounts.
book about Volksdeutsch… wonderful
Maybe there were lol. There certainly were Polish collaborators.
With or without the context of this particular book, I find the widespread idea that Poles had literally zero collaborants nor any responsibility for Holocaust, to put it mildly, odd
German – Israeli propaganda as it’s finest.
Paid by Germany to show Poland as accomplice in WW2 crimes and have arguments to don’t pay reparations.
Judenrats – Jewish councils established by German authorities also collaborated with their perpetrators and were responsible for the Holocaust. I imagine Jewish reactions if somebody brought up this topic.
There is only one nation who started genocides (plural, a genocides on Slavs, Jews or Roma). And one nation and country to blame only. Handful of non-German collaborators and traitors will not change it.
I mean, if the book is well researched, shows undeniable proof of such actions by specific individuals then what’s the issue?
Not to mention that this book will be read by like 1000 people in the whole world, 900 of which will be most likely russian propagandists that won’t ever go beyond the title.
there were plenty of anti jewish posters etc in 1930s in poland recently i have seen a beach with a sign jews entry prohibited or something like that but still if it wasn’t for the nazis this stuff would have not happened in poland
Niemcy i Austriacy próbujący wybielić swoją historię i zrzucić winę za holocaust na kogoś innego niż oni sami? Nowe nie znałem.
And Poles will still say that Germany has changed, they just want to shift the blame to someone else.
Its germans fault. They were responsible for this
I don’t know the contents of the book, but every single country has some massacre in their closet. Even though the Holocaust is German doing, you can’t deny things like Jedwabnem. The numbers are different, circumstances obviously convoluted but a massacre is a massacre no matter what statistics say.
While keeping historical truth straight is important, you can basically just compare between countries who killed more, and the answer typically is that the more powerful country during a certain period, killed more than weaker ones.
I find it way more important to keep current politics in a shape that allows for avoidance of genocides. Over attachment to the past creates conflicts that are absurd, because people of the current age aren’t responsible for their ancestors.
It’s more of the other way around. The ancestors are responsible for creating optimal circumstances for the next generations.
They probably were, just wait until you all find out about polish police in the GG
Who is this author? Why should we consider him an authority?
[ Removed by Reddit ]
Not only. Polish railway workers, police, even firemen were actively supporting holocaust.
“Not Nazis – Germans”
“Not Poles – Traitors”
Prepare for standards, and make them double.
I think it’s important to remember that being criminal isn’t exclusive to one nation.
People like this were among our grandparents back then, and people like this are among us today. It’s important to know that, because next genocidal maniac may not be… German. They may rise to power not opposed because people will ignore clear warnings. Because they won’t think someone among us may have such plans. Because they will strongly belief, they are better, that their nation deserves better, and god forbid, another nation doesn’t deserve anything, even right to exist. With dedication, to Russians,
It’s always what went on during the war that gets the spotlight but not what happened afterwards. The Germans were defeated already when the Kielce Pogrom happened in July 4th, 1946. It was started by a false rumor that a Jewish person had kidnapped a Polish boy, which in turn caused people to go and attack random Jews out on the street resulting in 42 killed and 40 seriously injured. Many of those victims being survivors of the Nazis that were just beginning to return home.
Why did this happen after the war? Because antisemitism didn’t just stop existing after the Nazis left Poland, some locals still believed in old stereotypes and myths about Jews there. The country was at the beginning of new communist rule which further laid the groundwork for the spread of rumors. Other Jews trying to return back home after the war also faced hostility from locals over land and home disputes that were created by Nazi looting and displacements.
Ale to jest prawda. W małych miastach/wsiach żydów wydawali i często zabijali Polacy potem osiedlając się w ich domach.
Some people in here fail to realize that according to the book Polish mayors under German occupation were given large degree of autonomy and ability to pursue their own goals and policy aside from German supervision. Book tries to portray them as willing and equal allies of German occupation forces, completely ignoring the fact that they couldn’t refuse due to the obvious.
Also the book was funded by Fritz Thyssen Foundation who was one of Hitler’s earliest supporters, until he realized that war is pretty bad for his business and fled to Switzerland.
Apparently, Poles killed more Jews than Germans during 2WW.
Wow. First we got “Nazis” instead of “Germans”, now it’s “Polish Mayors” instead of said “Nazis”. What a fascinating, though not unexpected, turn of events!
I really don’t get why people are getting so mad about such books.
Were there Polish collaborators? Yes.
Were these particular people co-responsible for the genocide? Yes.
Does it deny the German, leading role in the holocaust? No.
Does it shift the blame onto Poland as a whole? No.
The author just describes real events, that took place. There’s no reason to get mad about it, because it’s inconvenient for us. It’s just a history book like any other, simply touching a topic sensitive for many. There are countless books describing the participation of other nations in the holocaust, it’s not like the entire focus is on Poland. I really can’t understand why people treat those books as some kind of revisionism, when they are just stating facts.
After traveling through Germany, you guess who could commit such crimes again and again. You can see their expression change the moment you don’t speak German with them
Yup. What interesting timing. What did AfD say the other day? Sounds like the case to destroy Poland is getting reheated! Funny this book is being presented in German at the CEU Jewish studies program.
I assume they will also do the honor of presenting it in Poland to share this story?
Im not doubting there’s some truth to it- but it does seem awfully strange to single out Polish people and not mention, well you know who.
“21 listopad” undoubtedly proper Polish form
is the writer’s last name tusk?
My god 3-5 million Poles alone lived in West Germany in the thirties (Ruhrpoles) but do not tell the Poles… Whole cities in West Germany have been ruled by local Polish parties. Until now big cities in Ruhrgebiet celebrate “70% Polish ancestors” festivities. Means during the attack 1939 there was a significant population percentage (10-15%?) of Poles in the Reich. Polish history nowadays ist still the same what Russians fed them 45years long.
Ale w sensie że co?
Że dokumenty kłamią? Że nic takiego nie miało miejsca?
Że nie organizowano polowań na żydów, że administracja cywilna nie współpracowała z niemieckim okupantem przy tworzeniu gett, pilnowaniu i a potem parcelacją dóbr które po Żydach zostały?
To what extent would pogroms have occurred in Poland during WW2 had it not been for Nazi occupation? Pogroms occurred for centuries before the Nazis came along. The difference was that the official policy of the Nazi military occupiers was to encourage, conduct, sanction, approve etc… the pogroms. Of course, individuals were responsible for their actions, but don’t ignore the context when deciding who was culpable.
Why were some Polish people participating in Holocaust? Poles voted for it or was there some other reason?