Soon-to-be-axed 7am Manchester-London train will still run – but without passengers
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/nov/29/avanti-axed-7am-manchester-london-train-will-run-without-passengers?CMP=oth_b-aplnews_d-5
Posted by BestButtons
Soon-to-be-axed 7am Manchester-London train will still run – but without passengers
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/nov/29/avanti-axed-7am-manchester-london-train-will-run-without-passengers?CMP=oth_b-aplnews_d-5
Posted by BestButtons
20 Comments
> The rail regulator has axed one of Britain’s fastest and most lucrative intercity services, the 7am Avanti West Coast from Manchester Piccadilly to London Euston, as part of a timetable shake-up that will take effect in mid-December.
> What will heap on frustration for passengers, as well as the operator, is that the exact same train service will continue to run between the stations from 7am each weekday: crewed, fast and empty.
> The train and staff still need to travel from Manchester as they are rostered to operate subsequent services out of Euston on the new December timetable, under rail’s complex planning.
> The bizarre situation is expected to continue for five months or more until the next timetable change in May, meaning the service could run empty more than 100 times. The move has left rail insiders fuming at the decision by the Office of Rail and Road (ORR).
Bit odd.
> The train has been removed as the regulator tries to ensure the overall reliability of the railway in the new timetable on 15 December. The new schedule will mainly affect the UK’s other major rail artery, the east coast mainline, but the industry is wary of any potential disruption after the widespread cancellations and delays sparked by the last comparable overhaul, the May 2018 timetable fiasco.
> The ORR said the service was no longer feasible in the new timetable as new open access train services, run by First Group’s Lumo to Stirling in Scotland, were due to start. Fare revenue will go to the private operator rather than the Department for Transport, as is the case under the Avanti contract.
> The train has been removed as the regulator tries to ensure the overall reliability of the railway in the new timetable on 15 December. The new schedule will mainly affect the UK’s other major rail artery, the east coast mainline, but the industry is wary of any potential disruption after the widespread cancellations and delays sparked by the last comparable overhaul, the May 2018 timetable fiasco.
> The ORR said the service was no longer feasible in the new timetable as new open access train services, run by First Group’s Lumo to Stirling in Scotland, were due to start. Fare revenue will go to the private operator rather than the Department for Transport, as is the case under the Avanti contract.
> “If Avanti operates the service as empty coaching stock, [it] can be run more flexibly – delayed or rerouted – than a booked passenger service. This can assist with performance management and service recovery during disruption.”
> Northern business leaders hit out at the decision. Henri Murison, the chief executive of the Northern Powerhouse Partnership, said the ORR in backing open access was “denying business people in Manchester access to London on a vital fast peak service” and sacrificing revenue, adding: “Great British Railways’ future finances are being undermined by a regulator disregarding the interests of taxpayers, who will pick up the bill for this poor decision in the name of competition.”
“People paid a lot of money to get on that train. If we ever need justification for a guiding mind in the railway, this is the example.”
It is the guiding mind of the railway making the ludicrous decision. I think a lot of people will be highly disappointed in a state run railway, likely quite quickly if fares are forever frozen to keep voters onside and investment and service starts to degrade.
I just feel like we’re a nation devoid of common sense now.
At no point does it mention how popular the train was.
I can understand the point they are making that if it’s not a passenger train in use they can delay it for more important trains. But if we’ve just screwed over a few thousand people who took that train then this is dumb.
Also doesn’t mention whether there is a similar train 30 minutes before or after which can take the extra load.
It’s a complete mystery why rail services are so expensive in the UK and frankly I don’t think we will ever know.
Public transportation should be allowed to be so expensive, especially when they are starting to charge 3p per mile on electric cars, that you’ve already paid for electric at home or at a private charging station.
It’s like the government wants the WEF predictions of heavily reduced car use by 2035 by doing fast things like the per mile charge, narrowing as many roads as possible, to place bike lanes in them. Some other scary stuff on that list is starting to come true also.
It’s almost like we need more rail capacity between London and Manchester. We could build another railway along there, and we could even make it a high speed one to improve train travel.
But instead we spent so much time and money satisfying NIMBYs, half a dozen bats, and whatever other person wanted to stick a spanner in the works that everyone gave up on that idea.
dont think they realise how popular this train is
altho..they probably do know & don’t care
This is absolutely insane. What sort of a clown makes these decisions? The train is still running, people want to pay silly money to get on it, how can it make any sense to prevent them from doing so?
The railway does have capacity issues and so it is necessary to restrict who can run trains on it when, especially the WCML. But this train is *still running*, it still needs timetabling.
This is why if ever I need to go to London, I drive.
Granted most of the time it’s to somewhere not central central, but I have and will drive into central London if needed.
£193 for a train ticket is insane, and often even if “off peak” (which I could normally use due to the nature of my work) it’s still well over £100. Costs about £40-50 in petrol to drive there and back.
I’m also often stuck, as they finish stupidly early meaning I’d need to wait until the morning, or get a hotel, which is at least £200 for even a basic Travelodge these days.
Then there’s the fact that if you counter in travel to and from the station at each end, it’s normally quicker to drive than get the train.
This is a ridiculous position for a developed country to be in though.
What’s the point of running it “Without Passengers”
– if it’s going, then it might as well take passengers.
If it’s NOT taking passengers, then there’s no point in it going…
So many people here getting upset over a train they’ve presumably never taken or knew existed until now
At this point I think we need a national programme where we round up thicko managers and executives who make these sorts of decisions and allow the public to beat some sense into them.
We seem to specialise in idiot management in Britain and I can see no other solution.
This is a decision made by bureaucrats trying to meet KPIs and shows how ridiculous it is to let people like this be in charge.
Trains from London run half empty anyway, I always get the off peak trains as there’s more room. Peak time has always been the same too many people. In a morning from 630 till 830 there’s about 12 London trains running from my station alone.
Can’t fit any more in I used to use them won’t do that anymore unless I have too.
The fact we have to pay so much to use the train system at all is ridiculous.
This is just silly, I used to get this train at 7am, it’s what made the trip viable, otherwise I’d have to travel down the day before and pay extra money for hotels.
The rail industry was once the heartbeat of this country, now we are a laughing stock.
If we can’t even get our rail industry working fit for purpose I have barely any faith in anything in this country.
>The ORR said: “Our decision on the Manchester-London service was based on robust evidence provided by Network Rail that adding services within firebreak paths on the west coast mainline would have a detrimental impact on performance. We identified that this service would run in one of those paths.
Wouldn’t it be amazing if the west coast had a second high-speed line all the way up to Manchester to help alleviate such capacity problems?
Wouldn’t that be nice.
Excellent! Sensible policies for a happier Britain! ^(/s)