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    What are your thoughts on NATO's secretary general Rutte's statement that Europe cannot defend itself. Stubb thinks differently. Links to original statements below.
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    What are your thoughts on NATO’s secretary general Rutte’s statement that Europe cannot defend itself. Stubb thinks differently. Links to original statements below.

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    19 Comments

    2. Antti5 on

      Rutte is the secretary general of NATO. He’s trying to keep the alliance together, including the US. Everything he says should be seen through this lens.

      Europe most obviously can defend itself without US help. The defense would be weaker but still strong enough to deter Russia.

    3. FaithlessnessOwn2182 on

      Rutte could go to white house and continue sucking Trump’s dick, but I think Europe should be able to defence itself without US help.

    6. ViruliferousBadger on

      Finland has been in NATO couple of years, our defense has always been “without USA”.

    7. SpapsPora on

      Just after the ukraine war began we got massive amount of reports on how outdated the EU arsenal was. We absolutely need US.

      Now I think upping our game to not need US is a fantastic goal to set.

    8. tampereenrappio on

      Rutte has one job and one job only: flatter and suck up to Trump to prolong ambiguity of US response to russian attack and decoupling of US from NATO as long as possible

      For being able to defend itself, one has to define what that even means, just like what it means to “win” or “lose” in any scenario
      -would Europe be able to deter russia from gambling against the alliance without US? Maybe not
      -would russians “win” Europe by forcing surrender or dictating their terms? Absolutely not
      -would beating the russians be an absolutely horrendous in lives and economy without US help? Absolutely yes, as once they miscalculate as always, their dictator can not lose face and they continue to the last russian

    11. TraditionalClub6337 on

      Rutte probably says that for political reasons. We can’t know what he actually believes. Meanwhile we should try to keep relationship with us and get stronger more independent Europe at the same time, that doesn’t mean that if Trump starts to bully Europe again that Europe shouldn’t defend itself.

    12. Sure_Swimming2411 on

      Secretary General Rutte is Dutch, and they have this built-in submission to the Americans. Plus, Trump needs to hear that he’s wanted. On top of that, Europe has to invest in weapons it doesn’t even have yet—it’s high time we were able to shoot down ballistic missiles.

    13. SirMaha on

      How strong are the armies of middle european countries? I dont know but if what i have heard is correct there are less and less willing people to join the army. So Rutte just might be right.

    14. Cubazcubar on

      Europe does need the US for defence. It grew complacent after WW2, thinking there would not be a need for strong militaries anymore.

    15. budoka92 on

      well… one of them is known to call trump as daddy. so i don’t know how much i’d trust his statements

    16. iw7049 on

      There are two things to answer here: 1) can Finland defense itself, and 2) for how long can Finland defend itself?

      Stockpiles, manufacturing output and the impact to the latter in the event of conscript call up are things to consider.

      USA is needed. Fact.

    18. namesoundsoff on

      Europe is a continent that quite literally took over the entire world. Of course it COULD defend itself it is just a matter of political will to do it.

    19. Pas2 on

      Is the implication here that EU NATO countries are together somehow weaker than Ukraine alone? I don’t see Russia invading EU NATO countries even if US wouldn’t get involved since Ukraine has turned out to be this difficult for them.

      Or is it that US might invade Europe?

      I think the biggest upside to having strong US support for defending NATO countries in Europe is mostly that no one will seriously consider trying their luck at a bit of invading. Even if you can defend yourself, you’d prefer not having to fight a war on your own turf or dealing with cheeky airspace violations and other weakness probing.

      I’d say this is mostly a politically awkward situation for people here who were strongly pro-NATO because they were pro-US and the vast majority of them didn’t see a risk in this regard with Trump being elected for the second term. Due to this change in US geopolitical strategy, essentially the Finnish people who were most pro-US/pro-NATO/pro-Trump last year, now look a bit naive in their unwavering trust that US would always have their back against Russian threats.