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    France and Germany’s next-generation fighter jet project is ‘dead’
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    France and Germany’s next-generation fighter jet project is ‘dead’

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    36 Comments

    1. PoiHolloi2020 on

      🇬🇧🇮🇹🇯🇵: 🍿

      More seriously, I wonder what Germany’s going to do moving forward? France I suppose will continue on its own solo project.

    3. tree_boom on

      Does seem to be the case unfortunately, which really sucks. I would have much preferred for this program to succeed.

    4. Next_Science_1242 on

      Nice, years in the making and already at the beginning it was clear this is going to be sth between „kinda challenging“ and „not going to happen“. Time has gone by and nothing happened. sad!

    7. Shot-Winter-6559 on

      Still not confirmed to be a complete failure so there is still a chance they will work out the disagreements. It will be good to see what France actually do they will definitely go solo but what that looks like and time scales will be interesting. Germany is in a much worse position not really a chance they can go solo.

    8. fiendishrabbit on

      Has anyone ever managed to cooperate with Dassault? French defense industry is in general tough to work with, but Dassault have a reputation for being impossible.

    9. RecognitionOld2763 on

      The wording in the report (“We are doing everything we can to try and save this program. We’ll see how we can land”) has a strong EU flavor, that’s to say, they depict mismanagement as some natural forces and seem to want to get credits from fighting against problems caused by themselves.

    10. Any-Original-6113 on

      Germany will likely join forces with Spain and Sweden to attempt to build their own aircraft. It’s not certain that it will fully meet the specifications of a 6th-generation fighter, but it would still represent a step forward from the current situation.

      The French and German fighters will probably share common systems like the combat cloud and perhaps  dron units, along with some other shared components (such as a radar). This may be for the best, as France has unique requirements for its fighter jets.

    13. UnMaxDeKEuros on

      At some point we’ll need to make some tough choices if we really want deeper industrial integration, countries cannot all retain the ability to build a plane/mbt/submarines/etc by themselves, otherwise we’ll always gonna have the same argument, and it essentially means that we we are not saving any money from mutualizing our effort. I think the solution is to spread the leadership of projects so that the countries eventually specialize, fighter jets led by France, heavy land vehicles by Germany, … Easier said than done though.

    17. spidd124 on

      I’m guessing the Germans couldn’t help themselves again. They nearly did the same with both the Eurofighter and Tornado collaborative projects before.

    18. Present-Savings-2380 on

      Hopefully Germany will joint GCAP and France can go solo (Dassault’s wet dream).

    19. demon_of_laplace on

      Not strange at all. For both countries, cooperating is less palatable at 5% of GDP to defense. If you afford it, you will want to own this tech stack.

    21. Caesar171 on

      Ugh, we’re gonna drop the ball on our project now we don’t have a healthy competition. Just you watch.

    23. bogdantzu12 on

      Germany wanted a joint manufacture like Eurofighter (UK Germany),France wants the plane to be build only by Dassault.Sadly this project was doomed a long time ago

    24. IntrepidWolverine517 on

      This is once more a journalist not understanding the dynamics of tough negotiations and creating a bait click headline.

    25. BurningPengu on

      It is sad but a lot of experts saw it coming…

      But both countrys have very different needs…

      France is a nuclear power and wants planes that can be used on aircraft carriers and ofc can carry out the nuclear doctrine (but i might be outdated on this one as i think France uses it’s submarines more for the nuclear part).

      Als for economics : France and Germany have VERY different possibilities when it comes to USE them.

      In Germany it’s almost impossible to strike like the USA/France/GB with military as for political reasons that is way more complicated.

      Also later when exporting those planes it’s very easyer for France to allow it.

      I really hoped that this EU project would work out (as a small country between them i have a strong interesst about EU having it’s own force) but it was seen for years now that this project would gonna fail :/

    27. CertainMiddle2382 on

      Arm chair general opinion:

      Let France built its own lighter carrier capable fighter.

      Europe also needs a stealthy ultra long range medium bomber IMO (à la B21)

      This way the two projects would be complementary…

    28. WeakZookeepergame155 on

      If they ask nicely Boeing will eventually sell them F-47s. By then some “Democrat” will be most probably in the White House, flying triumphantly in Berlin and Paris, wave from balcony to cheering masses who will be so relieved that things are back to “normal”. Until next “Republican” president when relations will sour once again, but contracts with Boeing will be already in place.

    29. CecilPeynir on

      First Eurodrone, now this, and probably Dassault nEUROn too.

      Well, profitable days are ahead for Turkish aviation.

      I wouldn’t be surprised if interest in Kaan increases from EU countries in the near future.

    30. ganbaro on

      It was long dead, we could have saved a lot of time by being honest about it far earlier.

      Now Germany+Spain can try to prove that they can get another nation to join and, together, close the tech gap to the French. And France can try to prove that they can find someone to fund a France first project without asking for tech sharing or lots of production in return.

      Good look to both. The best outcome for Europe is if both manage to build a last-gen plane.

      Edit: On a sidenote, I find it funny that some posters I often see around the European federalism circlejerk posts are not to be seen around posts on tensions within EU.

    31. micosoft on

      Folk seem to be suggesting this is a unique EU thing when the exact same thing happened in the US with the F22 the German option (land based dedicated air superiority fighter) and F35 the French option (compromised for flexibility for carrier, independent nuclear strike and VTOL) based on fundamentally different doctrines driven by strategic imperatives. The question is if Europe needs three with the GB/Italy/Japan option too.

    34. Thekingofchrome on

      A shock for no one. France will struggle with this. They want a true multi role aircraft, and while they can certainly build it, who is going to pay for it. They need partners and will run into the same challenge again, eg countries like India or whoever won’t hand over cash without design input and IP exchange. Not getting it right…

    35. ForTheGloryOfAmn on

      If some people find “unacceptable” that France has demands about naval aircraft as they have aircraft carrier, maybe it’s not France who is the problem.

      Also, France uses its army. Not germany. We don’t have a military showroom like some.

      Germany is great at press campaign in anglosphere.
      Expert on making France the bad guy since 1919.

      ——

      – GCAP is based on British Aerospace as true design authority
      – Saab has made clear that a future Swedish/German fighter would have them as design authority
      – Dassault has made clear that NGF would have them as design authority

      ——

      The german government has known since 2017 that naval aviation is a sine qua non requirement for the NGF

      They chose then to start and they have chosen since to continue FCAS with France.

      If they discover now that they don’t agree, that is their responsibility only.

    36. bestaflex on

      For France it’s a military project for germany it’s an industrial project.

      Dassault is very happy to give production to germans but they dont want to share the lead on the project Because they fear industrial and economical ideas Will pollute the efficiency and doctrine.

      Was the same for the rafale, happened also on tanks.