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  1. Anxious_7588 on

    There’s mix of personal choice and economic reality here it’s not just one factor driving this , people are just being more honest about what they want out of life now 

  2. Tbh I think young adults in the past 50 years have doubted whether they wanted it and many of them choose to do it after all. I’m an older millennial and many of my generation also had this doubt (including myself) and most of us have children now. A few are happily or unhappily childfree.

  3. imtired-boss on

    Let’s rephrase this and tell the truth that younger generations don’t give in to their elders’ pressure to have kids no matter what.

    Governments and companies take less and less care of parents and prefer the constant availability of childless adults.

  4. Since there are almost no houses available for below 400/500k young couples rather wait or just don’t have kids.
    It’s all on the older generation who does not want to build more houses since it would decrease the worth of their own house they bought for cheap and more then doubled in price.

  5. Crafty_Aspect8122 on

    What do these psychos expect? For people to live in crowded miserable conditions with no money at the mercy of the aristocracy?

    Or for everyone magically being able to afford 1 million+ housing?

  6. FrostPegasus on

    As long as a family needs two full-time incomes to survive, childbirth will remain low. Simple as that.

  7. ETA: thank you, fellow parents for the kind words, I appreciate each and every one of them!

    Dad of 2 months here. The isolation is unreal. I know that it will be better, but I have not felt this unseen, lonely and tired I have ever been. I love my child to pieces, but the sacrifices are signifficant in every single aspect of life. If either me or my partner made 20% less than what we do, I don’t think we would have been able to afford this singular child. 

  8. Do we have any earlier data points. Like was this number higher or lower in say 2010.

    Also, like others have said this attitute often changes as people enter their 30s

  9. Many non-human animals regulate their population when living conditions become adverse in a given environment. The human species is no exception. Plus, there are still more than enough births on this planet.

  10. Odd-Future1037 on

    Everyone I know that has more than 2 kids is a millionaire, which is an absurd state of affairs imo.

  11. Bubbly-Attempt-1313 on

    4 months maternity leave (4 paternity, 8 in total), 2K for a nursery per month (and kinder garden) for 5 days if you go back to work full time, housing prices through the roof, no housing availability in general (unless you pay a decent amount). Even those who want kids have doubts.

  12. VisibleReport5008 on

    If you look at birth rates at the year 2000 for example, the rates are still low(1.4 europe average). This isnt all about economy.

  13. Not dutch but me and most of my then highschool friends are childless right now, the only 2 exceptions being the rich guy and the girl whos always wanted to form a family.

    Me i woukd have kids if i didnt risk my economic wellbeing doing so, but my gf and I have talked about it and only if we could do it without risking not being able to at least save a bit while doing so.

    Specially as woth next elections the favourite party will privatize healthcare and services more. I just dont want to have a kid if thst means ruining our economy wich would suck for us, but even more for the kid

  14. Sad-Engine6561 on

    To governments who are bitching about their ciritzens not wanting to reproduce i suggest trying the following: 1) give people spacious, affordable, decent housing 2) give decent child support, and especially raise benefits for second, third etc. child. Importantly, people should not feel that they become pooper by having a child.

  15. It is insane how reddit still parrots the same stuff about this topic without either looking at data or surveys of young women.

    Its not the economy. Its not even housing and Its not a change in social pressure.

    #Its literally just choice.

    Having children sucks. From multiple standpoints. Even under perfectly conditions it nukes your body and personal freedom and PROBABLY also your social life

    So guess what? We don’t want to have children anymore.

    #and guess what countries with high birthrates have all in common?

    Exactly. Women can’t prevent themselves from having children.

    So unless the government’s figure out a way how to compensate us for it this problems isn’t gonna go away

    #WHY DO YOU THINK THE FAR RIGHT WANTS TO BAN ABORTION AND CONTRACEPTION?

    because its the easiest and by a VERY VERY lagre margin the best way to Increase birthrates

    People always claim its something else and “if everything would be perfect I would want children” but that’s all men. When it comes down to it women still chose no children or, and thats way way more common, have 1 child. And thats a lot of work and they can’t imagine double the amount. So they stixk with 1

    #And guess what. A fertility rate of 1 is unsustainable

  16. As a childfree person, it’s fascinating to me how inevitably under such post there will be people arguing how expensive it is to rise a child or how housing market is challenging, but almost no one from those commenting seems to entertain a though that some people might not want to have babies, and that such approach doesn’t invalidate choice of others to reproduce

  17. Meanwhile, most people in Bulgaria, Greece, and Italy remain childless or have one single child in their 40s.

  18. For a lot of them it’s “not under these circumstances” rather than “not at all ever”.

    For myself I’d like to have kids, but I’m gay and this country practically eliminated both surrogacy and adoption, so there are little options left for us

  19. kastbort2021 on

    18 to 35 is a broad age range. What does this distribution look like? I’d imagine it being quite skewed toward the younger side.

    Also, I’ve met plenty of early-to-mid 30s people that didn’t want kids, but then a couple of years later suddenly wanted (and tried).

    FWIW I don’t have any kids myself, but I’m pushing 40 and live in northern Europe. My high-school class was small, just 24 in my class.

    One interesting observation is that some became parents quite early, as in between age 16 and 20, almost no-one in their 20s, and the majority after they hit 30. Especially the guys. 1/3 of the guys in our class have become fathers *after* 35.

  20. In essence it’s a combination of A) cost-of-living, B) uncertainty about the future, C) lifestyle choice but massively underrated is simply D) the costs and burden of children. There are so many costs, expectations and lifestyle ‘sacrifices’ nowadays that come with raising children in a way that is incomparable to prior generations or countries that have a general lower quality of life. Yes it’s partially a first world problem. But it’s one that has made the economic and partly the social burden too much to make having children feel like an enticing option for young adults.

  21. No_Conversation_9325 on

    When parents need to dedicate most of 1 out of 2 incomes to pay childcare, what is the government counting on? Let alone the expectations that a woman will shoot the kid out and be back to work within 16 weeks (4 before, 12 after)? And guess why whole 12 weeks? Nurseries don’t accept the responsibility for babies younger than 3 months old.

  22. Perhaps we are truly witnessing the end of a civilisation – specifically that of the Western, European-influenced, value-free consumer society. In the past, children and family were values in themselves; today, they are merely disruptive elements that rob one of freedom and personal fulfilment. We have become nothing but hyper-individualists who no longer see any point in leaving behind anything that will outlive us. I know that the comparison with ancient Rome is a cliché, but the Romans, who were always proud of their past and traditions, eventually found themselves unable to make sense of it all either. Overall, when I consider the whole issue of ever-falling birth rates, I sense signs of disintegration.

  23. IMO the best anwser is the bottom one in the article. FFS, we as a species arent optimized for nuclear families. We are used to raise children in social groups, and now parents have to do what 4 or 5 people did even a 100 years ago, while owrking 40 hours a week. Its just too much pressure.

    Having children means you erase your free time, social circles, fun money and independence (and often the whole relationship) for the next one or two *decades*. If the grandparents doesnt live nearby or unwilling to help (which is common), having a single date night is scifi territory.

    And you wont get much in return. Your children will move away from you, and you will meet them maybe monthly. Also, often they wont take care of you when you are old (which is perfectly fine tbh, but this was a very big part of why people wanted children).

    And now you have options instead of the society forcing this on you. You can as a couple decide to forgo having children, instead enjoying your 30s, 40s and 50s, relying on your friends and just not having to endure the cons of children.

  24. Human evolution hasn’t changed in the last thirty years. People still have an inbuilt desire to reproduce.
    If you could raise a family, own a home, go on holiday and save up some money on one salary or two normal salaries I think people would have more kids in rich countries.
    Housing is killing this generation.
    Affordable, secure housing with good secure jobs plus cheap daycare for small kids and we’d have more couples feeling they can afford to have kids.

  25. catladyforever on

    I’m Dutch and currently pregnant with my first child. The only reason we feel secure to do this is because my husband and I have rich parents who have helped us buying a house. We are probably top 20% earners and still we are doubting if we will be able to afford a second one. We’d probably have to sacrifice on quality of life for our first born if we were to do that. Mostly we see very rich friends opting for more than 1 kid, it has become a luxury decision.

  26. Positive_Chip6198 on

    Western civilization is reaching a dead-end according to evolution. 200 years from now, the people living were the ones, whos ancestors did have children, and nobody will remember all those who chose not to.

    Evolutionary speaking, not wanting to have children is an illness. A sign of sickness in the society or the individual. The world/nature will move past it and us, as it has always done.

    What makes me sad is a lot of the people i know, who dont want kids, are the good ones. The smart progressives and humanitarians, the ones who volunteer and care about nature. Those are really the types of people the world could use more off, in my opinion.

  27. Multiple factors.

    1) The standard of raising kids has become higher and harder. Regular advice from 30 years ago would be counted as neglect today (for example, letting kids under 7 months old cry on their own).

    2) Dual-working (full time) parents have become the economic norm and are needed to afford a suitable home (by today’s standards). There’s very little time to actually take care of kids. Mothers working part time have been called “parttime princesses” a few years back in The Netherlands, signaling how mothers are expected to be working fulltime while the role men have was overlooked. Children daycare have full waiting lists in The Netherlands, it’s hard to even get daycare let alone more than 2 days per week.

    3) Having kids is bad for your career. When others aren’t getting children (increasingly), and thus are able to be at the office daily and working overtime while you can’t because you have to be home by three for your kids and take care of your family, it limits your options for rising the ranks fast. This means you hold off children until you’re at a comfortable spot. Now that men are expected to help out more in raising children, this is impacting them more as well. It’s essentially limiting two careers for the family income instead of 1.

    4) increase in expected productivity per employee leads to more burn-outs and less willingness to reproduce. Look at asian countries, where work culture is even worse. The Netherlands is one of the more productive per employee countries of the EU.

    5) No more systematic pushing people who don’t want children to raise families from the Church. My grandmother was pushed into a post-maternal depression by the Church after her 4th child (she would go on for a total of 6) after the pastor kept telling her they needed a new child every time the Protestants in the town had a new birth. So this is a good thing. The boomer generation was always unsustainable high.

    6) Social media warped the idea of succes to wealth, fame and popularity rather than having a loving family. The family is losing it’s status as central unit to society. Having children is becoming less and less of a goal for new generations.

    It’s time to change the economy to benefit for families. Far right groups hijacked ‘protect the families’ for their anti-LGBTQ bullshit while we really should have discussions about where we invest our resources in.

  28. Father of a 3 year old here. It’s true that everything is expensive and it’s difficult to live like this but also we need to see the roles of grandparents here. When I was young I spent a lot of time with my grandparents, they also raised me in some periods of my life when my parents had to work. Now I’m lucky if my parents can/want spend 2 hours with my son every 2 weeks.

  29. The production of everything flourishes under capitalism, with the exception of human beings. What progress!

  30. introspectivebrownie on

    Having a child in my late 30s recently has been incredibly challenging. Despite not being financially struggling, there seem to be significant career tradeoffs and sacrifices, regardless of the choice. I suspect income and career trajectory are major factors influencing people’s decision against having children. However, it’s also a profoundly rewarding experience, unlike anything else.

  31. Further proof that the lies Redditors tell that they would only have children if they had maternity leave is false.

    All of the data shows the poorer and worse of a country is, the more children they have. Basically you have to destroy society to have kids.

  32. specialsymbol on

    Maybe the housing crisis means people don’t want their offspring to live in the streets or in shoe boxes 

  33. Dapper-Video-791 on

    It is like this across the world from USA to Europe to Asia.  

    The elites crushed the middle class everywhere on the globe. Now governments are sitting there with shocked Pikachu face about what’s going wrong and due to the cataclysmic demographics projections.

    Hopefully the elites can have fun with their AI.  Maybe AI will buy stuff companies make, lol.

  34. protontransmission on

    If you don’t have kids, your society dies off.
    And it’ll be replaced by others who you might not like.